A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Average time to solo a student



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old June 5th 18, 02:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
CindyB[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 157
Default Average time to solo a student

On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airplane student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a CFIG.


me (CindyB change)
6:33 PM (less than a minute ago)
On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airplane student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a CFIG.

I soloed a new student this weekend. snip He snip did a spectacular job.

On line it appears in several places that the average time to solo a glider is around 40 flights. Is they information accurate? My student doesn't have nearly that many flights.

Opinions?


Congrats to the new solo pilot!
Opinions on r.a.s.? Ha! Lots of them, but you've got answers from a few fine instructors. More than 25 years CFI-G responding here.

Factors to consider on flight count to a solo:
Consistency of training (number of CFIs)
Frequency of training (best is alternate days, typical is 1x weekly)
Age of student (~25 flites plus 1 per year over age 40)
Emotional, physical or intellectual deficits
(dominant eye, musculature for controls, fear of flight, etc.)
Intellectual prep prior or concurrent with flying (Reading and study)
Valid simulator training experience (Condor's Great! Cuts airtime responsibly.)
Thoroughness of training syllabus (What variety of emergency prep?)
Potential weather variability and scale at solo location.
The student's mental outlook, responsibility and openness to ongoing training toward the rating.


A lesser impact on flight count is complexity of machine or launch method. The student doesn't know what they don't know. Give them a 2-33 or a DG-500 and they will learn rates for desired reactions.

As the CFI-G, you have to believe they will handle whatever comes their way during their solo supervision period. Engine/prop/mast complexities if self-launching. The abruptness of disarray in a botched winch start. The management of slack line and towing position and PT3s of aerotowing - flight as a formation and its necessary communication foibles/weaknesses.

You gave us little insight to allow us to respond with pertinent info. The gentlemen responded generically, appropriately.

Aerotow, once a week, variable weather, motivated reader, 2-33 through fixed gear glass ~30:1, typically 12-14 weeks and 30-35 to solo. But I am known to be thorough on the emergency procedures training.
Straight-ahead break, abbrev pattern 2-3 times from different places, downwind landing in 5-8 kts. That's 4 flights. Sprinkled thru the experience.
Full spoiler locked-open landing. Slip to a landing (no spoilers till touched). A wave-off or two at the top of some tow or other.
It keeps them thinking..... not coasting.

Thanks for being curious. Thanks for teaching.

Cindy Brickner
Mojave, CA
  #12  
Old June 5th 18, 05:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Average time to solo a student

I have seen a statistic averaged over many solos.

20 starts + 1 for every year over the age of 20 for aerotow

20 starts + 2 for every year over the age of 20 for winch

  #13  
Old June 5th 18, 05:12 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Average time to solo a student

On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airplane student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a CFIG.

I soloed a new student this weekend. He flew three solo flights & did a spectacular job. He has no former flying experience so he wasn't the typical add-on pilot that I'm usually teaching.

On line it appears in several places that the average time to solo a glider is around 40 flights. Is they information accurate? My student doesn't have nearly that many flights.

Opinions?

  #14  
Old June 5th 18, 06:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
lynn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 70
Default Average time to solo a student

On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airplane student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a CFIG.

I soloed a new student this weekend. He flew three solo flights & did a spectacular job. He has no former flying experience so he wasn't the typical add-on pilot that I'm usually teaching.

On line it appears in several places that the average time to solo a glider is around 40 flights. Is they information accurate? My student doesn't have nearly that many flights.

Opinions?

I soloed on my 20th flight with zero previous flying experience. Credit this to having 3 to 4 flights a day for 6 flying days over a 5 week period.
  #15  
Old June 5th 18, 06:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Koerner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 430
Default Average time to solo a student

15 starts here. Then three months later off doing intentional cross country. And 42 years more it's still damn fun. Hope the new inductee goes crazy with soaring too.
  #16  
Old June 5th 18, 06:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 961
Default Average time to solo a student

On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 1:55:12 PM UTC+12, CindyB wrote:
On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airplane student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a CFIG.


me (CindyB change)
6:33 PM (less than a minute ago)
On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airplane student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a CFIG.

I soloed a new student this weekend. snip He snip did a spectacular job.

On line it appears in several places that the average time to solo a glider is around 40 flights. Is they information accurate? My student doesn't have nearly that many flights.

Opinions?


Congrats to the new solo pilot!
Opinions on r.a.s.? Ha! Lots of them, but you've got answers from a few fine instructors. More than 25 years CFI-G responding here.

Factors to consider on flight count to a solo:
Consistency of training (number of CFIs)
Frequency of training (best is alternate days, typical is 1x weekly)
Age of student (~25 flites plus 1 per year over age 40)
Emotional, physical or intellectual deficits
(dominant eye, musculature for controls, fear of flight, etc.)
Intellectual prep prior or concurrent with flying (Reading and study)
Valid simulator training experience (Condor's Great! Cuts airtime responsibly.)
Thoroughness of training syllabus (What variety of emergency prep?)
Potential weather variability and scale at solo location.
The student's mental outlook, responsibility and openness to ongoing training toward the rating.


A lesser impact on flight count is complexity of machine or launch method.. The student doesn't know what they don't know. Give them a 2-33 or a DG-500 and they will learn rates for desired reactions.

As the CFI-G, you have to believe they will handle whatever comes their way during their solo supervision period. Engine/prop/mast complexities if self-launching. The abruptness of disarray in a botched winch start. The management of slack line and towing position and PT3s of aerotowing - flight as a formation and its necessary communication foibles/weaknesses.

You gave us little insight to allow us to respond with pertinent info. The gentlemen responded generically, appropriately.

Aerotow, once a week, variable weather, motivated reader, 2-33 through fixed gear glass ~30:1, typically 12-14 weeks and 30-35 to solo. But I am known to be thorough on the emergency procedures training.
Straight-ahead break, abbrev pattern 2-3 times from different places, downwind landing in 5-8 kts. That's 4 flights. Sprinkled thru the experience.
Full spoiler locked-open landing. Slip to a landing (no spoilers till touched). A wave-off or two at the top of some tow or other.
It keeps them thinking..... not coasting.

Thanks for being curious. Thanks for teaching.

Cindy Brickner
Mojave, CA


A factor you missed. Is soloing:

- ability to safely launch and execute a circuit to landing on a calm windless late afternoon "I FLEW AN AIRCRAFT ALL BY MYSELF!"

OR

- ability to safely launch in active thermic (bumpy and/or a bit of wind) or ridge (definitely some wind) conditions and stay up for half an hour.

?

If you're training towards the latter then you're probably going to fly with the student on days on which they can't yet reasonably practice the launch or approach to progress towards solo, but you can go off and do a bot of actual soaring and even a small cross-country with them. That adds flights and hours to the time before solo.
  #17  
Old June 5th 18, 08:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Chris Rowland[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 45
Default Average time to solo a student

Is there a contest to see who can send someone solo the fastest?

In the UK the ATC used to send cadets solo in a tiny number of launches,
something like 20 winch launches. They achieved this by cutting out
everything that wasn't essential, including circuit planning and most
emergencies. Thy were solo but that was all.

The civilian clubs took many more launches, it took me 44 which was pretty
average for a teenager, but had been taught stalling and spinning, launch
failures, circuit planning and soaring. As a result my 4th solo was 20
minutes off the wire for my C certificate.

With the current pre solo syllabus it would be a challenge to get
everything covered in 20 aerotows.

What I tend to tell people after I send them solo is "Now you can learn to
fly". That's how it felt to me, and it still does.

Chris

At 05:24 05 June 2018, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 1:55:12 PM UTC+12, CindyB wrote:
On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of

airpla=
ne student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a
C=
FIG.
=20

=20
me (CindyB change) =09
6:33 PM (less than a minute ago)
On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of

airpla=
ne student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a
C=
FIG.

I soloed a new student this weekend. He did a spectacula=

r job. =20

On line it appears in several places that the average time to solo a

gl=
ider is around 40 flights. Is they information accurate? My student
doesn=
't have nearly that many flights.

Opinions?

=20
Congrats to the new solo pilot!
Opinions on r.a.s.? Ha! Lots of them, but you've got answers from a

few=
fine instructors. More than 25 years CFI-G responding here.
=20
Factors to consider on flight count to a solo:
Consistency of training (number of CFIs)
Frequency of training (best is alternate days, typical is 1x weekly)
Age of student (~25 flites plus 1 per year over age 40)
Emotional, physical or intellectual deficits
(dominant eye, musculature for controls, fear of flight, etc.)
Intellectual prep prior or concurrent with flying (Reading and study)
Valid simulator training experience (Condor's Great! Cuts airtime

respon=
sibly.)
Thoroughness of training syllabus (What variety of emergency prep?)
Potential weather variability and scale at solo location.
The student's mental outlook, responsibility and openness to ongoing

tra=
ining toward the rating.
=20
=20
A lesser impact on flight count is complexity of machine or launch

method=
.. The student doesn't know what they don't know. Give them a 2-33 or a
DG-=
500 and they will learn rates for desired reactions.
=20
As the CFI-G, you have to believe they will handle whatever comes their

w=
ay during their solo supervision period. Engine/prop/mast complexities if
s=
elf-launching. The abruptness of disarray in a botched winch start. The
ma=
nagement of slack line and towing position and PT3s of aerotowing -

flight
=
as a formation and its necessary communication foibles/weaknesses. =20
=20
You gave us little insight to allow us to respond with pertinent info.

Th=
e gentlemen responded generically, appropriately.
=20
Aerotow, once a week, variable weather, motivated reader, 2-33 through

fi=
xed gear glass ~30:1, typically 12-14 weeks and 30-35 to solo. But I am
kn=
own to be thorough on the emergency procedures training.
Straight-ahead break, abbrev pattern 2-3 times from different

places,
=
downwind landing in 5-8 kts. That's 4 flights. Sprinkled thru the
experienc=
e.
Full spoiler locked-open landing. Slip to a landing (no spoilers till

tou=
ched). A wave-off or two at the top of some tow or other.
It keeps them thinking..... not coasting.
=20
Thanks for being curious. Thanks for teaching.
=20
Cindy Brickner
Mojave, CA


A factor you missed. Is soloing:

- ability to safely launch and execute a circuit to landing on a calm
windl=
ess late afternoon "I FLEW AN AIRCRAFT ALL BY MYSELF!"

OR

- ability to safely launch in active thermic (bumpy and/or a bit of wind)
o=
r ridge (definitely some wind) conditions and stay up for half an hour.

?

If you're training towards the latter then you're probably going to fly
wit=
h the student on days on which they can't yet reasonably practice the
launc=
h or approach to progress towards solo, but you can go off and do a bot

of
=
actual soaring and even a small cross-country with them. That adds

flights
=
and hours to the time before solo.


  #18  
Old June 5th 18, 10:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Ruskin[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31
Default Average time to solo a student

Always helpful to have some real numbers...

I did an analysis of flights to solo across my club's membership over a period (sample size 155 first solos).

This is a primarily winch launch club. (I think as has been pointed out the number of flights will be less with pure aerotow).

The average was 63. But I don't think the average is very helpful in this discussion given the huge range that it covered - the std deviation was 38.

What was interesting, and contrary to the received wisdom, was that there was a much smaller correlation with age than might have been expected. There were a few outliers, some older people took a very large number of flights, but on the whole there wasn't a great age effect.



Paul
  #19  
Old June 5th 18, 12:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default Average time to solo a student

I have to say that after learning on airtow, Im very glad I went on to do several years of winch launching, I learnt very valuable lessons in flying low,
after simulated cable breaks and highly modified circuits. I would recommend it to any glider pilot.
The acceleration can be a bit intmidating at first, but soon becomes your best friend.
  #20  
Old June 5th 18, 02:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 699
Default Average time to solo a student

On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 04:19:38 -0700, mikestandishmic wrote:

I have to say that after learning on airtow, Im very glad I went on to
do several years of winch launching, I learnt very valuable lessons in
flying low,
after simulated cable breaks and highly modified circuits. I would
recommend it to any glider pilot.
The acceleration can be a bit intmidating at first, but soon becomes
your best friend.


I learnt to fly on a winch - same club as Paul. I was 52 at the time and
took 80 launches to solo - pretty much in line with the rule of thumb
that was told me "pilot age in years + 30".

This also included a no-instrument launch, circuit and landing plus pre-
solo stall and spin training all - done off the winch in an ASK-21
*without* tail weights because our paid instructor that year knew how to
spin a '21 at our combined cockpit load without them. I should say that
spinning was done after thermal climbs to a suitable altitude - it was a
rather good summer. I might equally have done spin training in a Puchacz
(we had and have one and I was introduced to it at 20th launch) - pre-
solo I regularly flew all our two seaters at the time (T.21, G103,
ASK-21, Puchacz).


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Short video of 14-year old glider solo student [email protected] Soaring 3 November 19th 16 08:24 PM
Average number of flights to solo for ab-initio students? Frank Paynter[_2_] Soaring 18 January 30th 12 02:54 PM
FAA regulations- Solo student is the PIC? brianDG303 Soaring 3 July 21st 08 02:10 PM
Student night solo? Peter MacPherson Piloting 50 November 10th 04 02:51 AM
Career Change - Full-time CFI: Average Flight Hours per year? Peter Gibbons Piloting 22 January 19th 04 01:02 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.