Be ready for the worst!

Anyone remember the scenes in Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying
machines with the German officer who can do anything?

True, but YOU MUST FOLLOW ZEE BOOK OF INSTRUCTIONZ!!!

On DVD, cool!

Jim Vincent
CFIG
N483SZ
illspam

Yeah, I have been watching for the TMMiTFM DVD for quite a while. So,
when I saw it was available a couple of weeks ago, I ordered it.
Received it last week and already took a look. I was disappointed to
notice just one mention of Derek Piggot in the additional photos and
information. Other additional info is really interesting none the
less. Anyone interested in the movie should also try to get the book -
I found one at abebooks.com.

All the best,
Steve

(Chip Fitzpatrick) wrote in message . com...
Anyone remember the scenes in Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying
machines with the German officer who can do anything?

BTW, it is just out on DVD.

Chip F

At 17:06 29 March 2004, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jim Vincent wrote:
Since the glider has no recording tach or Hobbs it's
been a habit of mine
for decades to keep the log in the glider where I can
keep it current after
each flight.


My glider is registered Experimental and the Operations
Limitations state that
the log book must be kept in the aircraft.

I specifically asked the FAA whether I had to log
immediately after every
flight or could just update periodically. He said
periodically was fine.
Consequentely, my partner and I only update the logbook
once a year at annual
inspection.

My operating limitations state: 'This aircraft shall
contain the
placards, markings, flight manual, etc., developed
for this aircraft.'

I recklessly fly without the flight manual in the glider!
Has anyone
been busted for doing this? If you carry it, have you
EVER referred to
it in flight? Is the German version acceptable, even
if I can't read
German? I imagine a pilot nearing Vne in a steepening
spiral, thumbing
through the pages, looking for G loadings with/without
spoilers open...

I DO carry all the 'etc.' with me, because they are
important.

--
-----
change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA


The German version is actually the one you should be
carrying. If your manual is worded like mine it will
state that if in doubt you should always refer to the
German original which must be considered authoritative
. LS were actually helpful enough to provide a small
scale version of the German manual (presumably to make
it easier to fit in the space over the spar) It's a
mad world.

Chip Fitzpatrick wrote:
Anyone remember the scenes in Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying
machines with the German officer who can do anything?

BTW, it is just out on DVD.

Chip F
I WANT it. Amazon here I come...

Then they could not have been nicer. They arranged to pick up the bones (no
questions about it being totaled) and sent me a full check immediately. I
had it insured for what it cost me, which of course was now underinsured I
reminded them that the trailer was not insured by them and was not included.
No problem.

Same warning. Don't give the insurance company a chance to mail you.

Ed Byars

Ed,

While you are patting yourself on your back for having *most* of the
required paperwork on board (put a half of a gold star in your log
book), you completely missed the big pictu you were UNDER INSURED!
This could have led to a very distressing situation: an aircraft that
is damaged, but repairable. The insurance company pays you the face
value of the policy and takes possession of the "wreckage", repairs it
and sells it for more than what they paid you and the repair shop
combined.

Think that this can't happen? Think again! Read your insurance
contract- they have sole discression in this area.

At the very least you need to be fully insured so you can replace your
glider with something comparable. This is clearly an issue with the
dramatic rise of the Euro relative to the dollar.

Tom Seim
Richland, Wa

91.9 and 21.5 of US CFR may be helpful.
I don't have a terribly clear idea how this applies
to experimentals, however, or even if 21.5 applies to
experimentals.

For regular ol' aircraft, IIRC before some date
(maybe the '80s?) the POH (AFM?) was fine, then after that,
one needed a manual with a serial number on it.

If anyone wants to illuminate us on the differences
between an AFM and a POH, you're smarter than me...

In article 6vF9c.6663$GH3.1276@fed1read07,
Michael McNulty wrote:

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
.com...
Michael McNulty wrote:
I am not aware that the flight manual is required to be in the aircraft.
I
believe that all of the information that I am required to have on board
is
contained on my placards (which are complete, including the weight and
balance limits). The placards are what my operating limitations
address,
and as the aircraft is not certified, there is no such thing as an
"approved
flight manual".

Check you operating limitations again. Every set I've had has included
a clause that requires carrying the manufacturers flight manual, along
with the placards.

Marc

I just double checked.

My operating limitations do say that I must have "the placards, markings,
etc. required by 91.9" , but there is not any specific reference to the
flight manual. Since my aircraft is experimental, an "approved flight
manual" does not exist, and I fully believe that my placards meet the
requirements of 91.9 for "approved manual material, markings, and placards
or any combination thereof". Again, the relevant document is the aircraft's
particular operating limitations. My operating limitations do require a
specific placard that states the weight and balance limits, Vne, and Va.
(My operating limitations were issued in October 2001, and I believe that
they follow the FAA inspectors handbook guidelines very closely.)

I suppose I could carry a copy of the manual, but I think I'm on pretty
solid ground without it.




--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Note that 14 CFR 91.9 (b) 1 and 2 only apply to airplanes and rotorcraft. A
glider is neither.
Also 14 CFR 21.5 only applies to airplanes or rotorcraft.

Only 14 CFR 91.9 (a) applies and, thus, it would appear that no flight
manual is required to
be carried in gliders unless the glider's Op Specs requires it to be
carried.

Allan


"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:406c7444$1@darkstar...
91.9 and 21.5 of US CFR may be helpful.
I don't have a terribly clear idea how this applies
to experimentals, however, or even if 21.5 applies to
experimentals.

For regular ol' aircraft, IIRC before some date
(maybe the '80s?) the POH (AFM?) was fine, then after that,
one needed a manual with a serial number on it.

If anyone wants to illuminate us on the differences
between an AFM and a POH, you're smarter than me...

Remember what's required to be on the aircraft?
The old ARROW, (now AROW):

Airworthiness Certificate
Registration
Operating Limitations
Weight & Balance

The deleted "R" was for Radio station license.

The operating limitations is where the ambiguity starts...
If ALL the operating limitations from the manual are on the placards,
you don't need the manual (AFM or POH) _IF_ you're operating part 91
(doesn't apply to part 121 or 135...but I haven't seen many "Charter
Gliders").

If ALL the limits aren't posted, then you need to carry the manual.

It's really cool being a 1-26 driver...a simple 12 page "leaflet"
covers flight and maintenance manuals! I carry a copy of "the manual"
in my 1-26... Do I ever pull it out in flight? Yeah, like you LS/ASW
drivers do! Could it possibly make life a little less painful in the
event of something terrifying such as a ramp check? Yup. So get
Kinko's to condense 148 pages of manual into a completely un-readable
(without a scanning electron microscope) document that helps you go
above and beyond "legal." I wonder if someday haveing a CD-RoM of the
manual will suffice...just imagine, once you've crashed and no longer
"need" the manual, you can use it as a signal mirror!

When I fly power craft, I PREFER to have a copy of "the manual," when
flying Part 135 or 121, I'm required to. As was pointed out earlier
in the thread, some manufacturers (and Type Certificate Data Sheets)
specify that "the manual" is required on board. The more complex the
airplane (e.g., 747), the more logical this need is.

As a side note, I also prepare custom checklists, which is perfectly
legal as long as each item in "the manual" checklist is on the
home-brew checklist. For those that fly the Piper Seneca, you can
understand that writing a home-brew checklist is a matter of sanity
preservation because the Piper manual has most things completely out
of order...

-Pete

Ed, no one answered your "ramp check" question.

If you are ever subject to a ramp check, you only need to "show" your pilot
certificate, and medical if required for power aircraft. Show means that,
show it to them, do not hand it to them. They can ask for but you do not
have to provide them with the aircraft records nor look in the airplane
other through the windows unless you let them. Offer to bring log books etc
to their office at a later date.

They cannot delay you. If you have just landed, you need to get things put
away because you have an appointment to get to. If you are preparing to
launch in the glider, your next in line and their interrupting the all
important DI, an you are loosing the best part of the day.

BT

"Ed Byars" wrote in message
ink.net...
If I remember correctly (not too likely) the Manufacturer's Flight Manual
says something like " this manual must be keep in aircraft". Also upon
review I could find no specific Reg requiring aircraft log book to be in
aircraft. It is however, the first thing the Feds will request.
I know in power craft we never carry the paperwork/log briefcase in the
airplane. We even kid with friends making them promise to burn all the
records in case we crash.
Since the glider has no recording tach or Hobbs it's been a habit of mine
for decades to keep the log in the glider where I can keep it current
after
each flight.
I would like to check my op. limitations but they went with the glider.
Incidentally I used a small font, reducing Xerox, and both sides to
condense
the bulky multi page operating limitations to an almost illegible but a
neat
card or two for the cockpit. Same for most other paperwork.
It's interesting to speculate if the placards referring to cockpit weights
will suffice for the W&B requirement.
Also I've heard that we are required only to "show" the Paperwork, not
surrender it. Is this just for the license on a ramp check or for all
"paperwork"? I sure didn't have any choice when they removed everything
from
my glider in my absence. I feel sure they were within their rights.
Weren't
they?
Remember the FAA motto: We're not happy until you're not happy. I'm
kidding.........some of my best friends are with the FAA.


"Michael McNulty" wrote in message
news:6vF9c.6663$GH3.1276@fed1read07...

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
. com...
Michael McNulty wrote:
I am not aware that the flight manual is required to be in the
aircraft.
I
believe that all of the information that I am required to have on
board
is
contained on my placards (which are complete, including the weight
and
balance limits). The placards are what my operating limitations
address,
and as the aircraft is not certified, there is no such thing as an
"approved
flight manual".

Check you operating limitations again. Every set I've had has
included
a clause that requires carrying the manufacturers flight manual, along
with the placards.

Marc

I just double checked.

My operating limitations do say that I must have "the placards,
markings,
etc. required by 91.9" , but there is not any specific reference to the
flight manual. Since my aircraft is experimental, an "approved flight
manual" does not exist, and I fully believe that my placards meet the
requirements of 91.9 for "approved manual material, markings, and
placards
or any combination thereof". Again, the relevant document is the
aircraft's
particular operating limitations. My operating limitations do require a
specific placard that states the weight and balance limits, Vne, and Va.
(My operating limitations were issued in October 2001, and I believe
that
they follow the FAA inspectors handbook guidelines very closely.)

I suppose I could carry a copy of the manual, but I think I'm on pretty
solid ground without it.

In article ,
ADP wrote:
Note that 14 CFR 91.9 (b) 1 and 2 only apply to airplanes and rotorcraft. A
glider is neither.

I disagree. 91.9(b)(2) covers a US registered civil aircraft
for which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight manual is not
required...

This means my glider.

In this case (still quoted from 91.9(b)(2) ) there must
be "available in the aircraft a current approved Airplane
or Rotorcraft Flight Manual" (obviously not)

OR -----this is a big OR. It comes from the parallel
sentence structure of the little "or" which is the
fourth from last word in the remaining verbiage.

"approved manual material, markings, and placards, or any combination
thereof."

From my reading, if it ain't an Airplane or Rotorcraft,
this last sentence describes what must be available in the aircraft.

Do the markings and placards give sufficient info to
replace carrying the "manual material?" I dunno...
Do I carry the manual material in all the gliders I personally fly?
Yes I do. But they are really tiny manuals, so
this presents no problems for me. Actually, it is nice
to sometimes be on the grid and browsing the "manual material."

Also 14 CFR 21.5 only applies to airplanes or rotorcraft.

This may be true. I don't have a copy of the full 21.5.
Dunno...I looked it up once but for airplanes, so
I dunno...


Only 14 CFR 91.9 (a) applies and, thus, it would appear that no flight
manual is required to
be carried in gliders unless the glider's Op Specs requires it to be
carried.

Again I disagree. I think combinations of markings, placards, and
manual material are required by 91.9(b)(2).


Allan


"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:406c7444$1@darkstar...
91.9 and 21.5 of US CFR may be helpful.
I don't have a terribly clear idea how this applies
to experimentals, however, or even if 21.5 applies to
experimentals.

For regular ol' aircraft, IIRC before some date
(maybe the '80s?) the POH (AFM?) was fine, then after that,
one needed a manual with a serial number on it.

If anyone wants to illuminate us on the differences
between an AFM and a POH, you're smarter than me...





--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA