IMC without an autopilot

Jon Kraus wrote:
Just curious as to opinions about flying in IMC without an autopilot?
Does an autopilot make flying in the clouds safer or is it just a crutch
for the lazy?

I think it would make single pilot IFR easier, but it should only make
it safer if the pilot is not competent to fly IFR.


For myself being new to IFR flying I feel safer knowing that if needed I
could turn the autopilot on. Maybe it is a false sense of security...

I think it is. You have to assume that the autopilot will not only fail
at the worst possible instant, you have to assume it will try to put the
plane in an unusual attitude as part of its failure process. If you
can't avoid an unusual attitude while hand flying, how are you possiby
going to recover from one induced by your failing AP?


Matt

wrote:

"vincent p. norris" wrote:


Just curious as to opinions about flying in IMC without an autopilot?

An autopilot is nice; but for years, in military and private a/c, we
didnt have them, and we got along just fine.


We didn't have single-pilot IFR trying to program and re-program a GPS box
during those years, either.


Have we forgot aviate then navigate?


Matt

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Jon,


Just curious as to opinions about flying in IMC without an autopilot?



One datapoint: In Germany, a two-axis autopilot is required by law for
single-pilot IFR.


It is true that Europe is very enlightened when it comes to general
aviation ... not! Most European countries would like to ban light
planes entirely and regulations like this are just another step towards
that end.


Matt

PaulaJay1 wrote:
In following this thread, I can't agree with the idea that prudent use of an
Autopilot can contribute to loss of proficency. I use the AP purhaps 80% of
the time - flying level on a heading. There's not much proficency to gain or
lose during this time.
I would think that we all hand fly the takeoff and landing. Here's where the
practice is useful and needed.

Chuck

I disagree. Flying straight and level, and checking the weather, and
programming the GPS, etc., requires a fair bit of skill. After five
years of flying IFR with no AP, I literally got to the point where
flying the airplane was a completely subconcious activity that I
literally didn't even think about anymore. I could easily do several
other tasks and keep the airplane on the straight and narrow.

I agree with the others that an AP can probably reduce fatigue on a long
trip in the clouds, but I only had a handful of these in 300 or so hours
of instrument flying. However, once I got sufficiently proficient that
flying the airplane was essentially automatic, I found I didn't get all
that fatigued even on 4 hour flights in the soup. Yes, I had a couple
of those. Once I flew my niece to college in Ohio from PA. There was
about an 800' ceiling over the entire northeast. I was in the soup from
shortly after takeoff until touchdown in Dayton. Took about 3 hours
against a strong headwind. I then turned right around and flew home in
the same soup. I was a little tired by then, but more from the noise
and sitting in one place too long, than from flying in IMC. I got tired
on VFR fights of that lenght!


Matt

Jon Kraus wrote in message ...
Just curious as to opinions about flying in IMC without an autopilot?
Does an autopilot make flying in the clouds safer or is it just a crutch
for the lazy?
For myself being new to IFR flying I feel safer knowing that if needed I
could turn the autopilot on. Maybe it is a false sense of security...

Most rate based autopilots (those connected to the turn coordinator)
tend to like to do rolls in turb. They should be shut off when being
bounced in the clouds (most real world IMC). The bigger planes (higher
end singles, etc) use attitude based autopilots which work much
better.
-Robet

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Just curious as to opinions about flying in IMC without an autopilot?
Does an autopilot make flying in the clouds safer or is it just a crutch
for the lazy?

It can be a crutch...but most likely it can save your life. It can also
allow a pilot to keep their eyes outside the cockpit a lot more.

To look at what? The clouds?



OTOH, don't the airlines fly something like 98% of a flight on autpilot?
From rotation to final?

For myself being new to IFR flying I feel safer knowing that if needed I
could turn the autopilot on. Maybe it is a false sense of security...

I always through an automatic transmission was a crutch (or should I say
"clutch) for those too lazy to drive stickshift.

John T ) wrote:

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message


Just curious as to opinions about flying in IMC without an autopilot?

Are you planning to use an autopilot for your checkride?

The DE for my instrument checkride allowed me to use the AP after we
leveled off. I explained to him that in actual IMC I would let the AP take
over so that I could retrieve and brief the approach plate. He had no
problem with that explanation.

He also allowed me to use the moving map (Bendix/King KMD-550) in the C172
to fly a partial panel VOR approach to the missed and to the hold. Imagine
that!

--
Peter












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"Highfllyer" wrote in message
...

The other problem with autopilots are they do go on the fritz, often
without
warning. Then, you can easily wind up fighting with you autopilot. The
systems are set up so that you should be able to "outmuscle" the autopilot
but they can be insidious. For example, a failing autopilot gyro will
slowly lean over most of the time. The autopilot will happily follow the
leaning gyro and put you into an interesting attitude that you have to
recover from, hopefully after disabling the autopilot, on partial panel.

If you don't know three ways of disabling the AP, you shouldn't use it. Even
more, most current AP's have fault detection warnings.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Highfllyer" wrote in message
...

The other problem with autopilots are they do go on the fritz, often
without
warning. Then, you can easily wind up fighting with you autopilot.
The
systems are set up so that you should be able to "outmuscle" the
autopilot
but they can be insidious. For example, a failing autopilot gyro will
slowly lean over most of the time. The autopilot will happily follow
the
leaning gyro and put you into an interesting attitude that you have to
recover from, hopefully after disabling the autopilot, on partial panel.

If you don't know three ways of disabling the AP, you shouldn't use it.
Even
more, most current AP's have fault detection warnings.

Fighting with the autopilot to disconnect it is dangerous.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

If you don't know three ways of disabling the AP, you shouldn't use it.
Even
more, most current AP's have fault detection warnings.

Some early autopilots don't have three ways of disabling them. Cessna did
not start putting circuit breakers that you could pull in their single
engine planes until just a few years ago. Autopilots from the 1980's did not
have yoke mounted disconnect buttons. I had a 1982 Cessna 172RG that had
only two ways of disconnecting the autopilot -- either turning off the
autopilot switch or overpowering it. Overpowering it did not really
disconnect it. I could have turned off the master switch, but that would
have been a last resort.

Now that I have referred to the 1980's as 'early' I think I will just go
hide somewhere.... maybe drink some Ensure.