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Safety of homebuild Helicopters



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 7th 06, 11:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
JohnO
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 120
Default Safety of homebuild Helicopters

Hi,

Can someone point me to any official accident statistics that would
demonstrate the relative accident rates of various classes of certified
and experimental helos? Specifically I would want to exclude any
accidents that were pilot error or failure of maintenance. and only
consider accidents where there was a design fault

I'm interested to know how safe the design is on the various kit helos,
in particular for Rotorway in the KISS turbine version.

It concerns me that a lot of the luminaries of the kit helicopter world
such as Schramm and Bedo have died in accidents, but I'm not sure if
the reasons were faults in the aircraft or pilot error.

Cheers,
JohnO

Ads
  #2  
Old December 8th 06, 05:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
Gem
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Safety of homebuild Helicopters

JohnO wrote:
Hi,

Can someone point me to any official accident statistics that would
demonstrate the relative accident rates of various classes of certified
and experimental helos? Specifically I would want to exclude any
accidents that were pilot error or failure of maintenance. and only
consider accidents where there was a design fault

I'm interested to know how safe the design is on the various kit helos,
in particular for Rotorway in the KISS turbine version.

It concerns me that a lot of the luminaries of the kit helicopter world
such as Schramm and Bedo have died in accidents, but I'm not sure if
the reasons were faults in the aircraft or pilot error.

Cheers,
JohnO


I believe Mr. Schramm suffered a heart attack, and died in the air.
  #3  
Old December 8th 06, 12:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
JohnO
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 120
Default Safety of homebuild Helicopters


Gem wrote:
JohnO wrote:
Hi,

Can someone point me to any official accident statistics that would
demonstrate the relative accident rates of various classes of certified
and experimental helos? Specifically I would want to exclude any
accidents that were pilot error or failure of maintenance. and only
consider accidents where there was a design fault

I'm interested to know how safe the design is on the various kit helos,
in particular for Rotorway in the KISS turbine version.

It concerns me that a lot of the luminaries of the kit helicopter world
such as Schramm and Bedo have died in accidents, but I'm not sure if
the reasons were faults in the aircraft or pilot error.

Cheers,
JohnO


I believe Mr. Schramm suffered a heart attack, and died in the air.


Oh. There's worse ways to go I guess...

  #4  
Old December 8th 06, 02:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
Tom Frey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Safety of homebuild Helicopters


"JohnO" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

Can someone point me to any official accident statistics that would
demonstrate the relative accident rates of various classes of certified
and experimental helos? Specifically I would want to exclude any
accidents that were pilot error or failure of maintenance. and only
consider accidents where there was a design fault

I'm interested to know how safe the design is on the various kit helos,
in particular for Rotorway in the KISS turbine version.

It concerns me that a lot of the luminaries of the kit helicopter world
such as Schramm and Bedo have died in accidents, but I'm not sure if
the reasons were faults in the aircraft or pilot error.

Cheers,
JohnO


Do you mean something other than the NTSB records?

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp

Tom




  #5  
Old December 8th 06, 06:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
Stuart & Kathryn Fields
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 328
Default Safety of homebuild Helicopters

Note: Discussions with Blake Estes of Eagle R&D, the home of the Helicycle,
there were autopsies that disproved the heart attack rumor for B.J. The
most probable cause was fuel contamination causing engine stoppage while at
a low altitude.
BTW after reviewing a bunch of accidents involving experimental helicopters,
there are darned few that can be attributable to only a design flaw. Most
if not all were avoidable by proper pre-flight, proper inspection, or proper
pilotage. Obviously some of the maintenance issues involved in crashes
could have been avoided by a different, better, design, but that could be
said for a lot of the Bell 47 accidents and they have been successfully
operated for years.

--

Stuart Fields
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478
(760) 408-9747 general and layout cell
(760) 608-1299 technical and advertising cell

www.vkss.com
www.experimentalhelo.com


"JohnO" wrote in message
oups.com...

Gem wrote:
JohnO wrote:
Hi,

Can someone point me to any official accident statistics that would
demonstrate the relative accident rates of various classes of

certified
and experimental helos? Specifically I would want to exclude any
accidents that were pilot error or failure of maintenance. and only
consider accidents where there was a design fault

I'm interested to know how safe the design is on the various kit

helos,
in particular for Rotorway in the KISS turbine version.

It concerns me that a lot of the luminaries of the kit helicopter

world
such as Schramm and Bedo have died in accidents, but I'm not sure if
the reasons were faults in the aircraft or pilot error.

Cheers,
JohnO


I believe Mr. Schramm suffered a heart attack, and died in the air.


Oh. There's worse ways to go I guess...




  #6  
Old December 8th 06, 08:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
Don W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 52
Default Safety of homebuild Helicopters

JohnO wrote:

Hi,

Can someone point me to any official accident statistics that would
demonstrate the relative accident rates of various classes of certified
and experimental helos? Specifically I would want to exclude any
accidents that were pilot error or failure of maintenance. and only
consider accidents where there was a design fault


You can search the NTSB accident records by make
of aircraft. You'll have to read the summaries
yourself to exclude pilot error.

Actually, for the Rotorway with the turbine
conversion there may not be very many entries
since they haven't been available for that long,
and there are not that many flying.

Good luck,

Don W.

  #7  
Old December 9th 06, 05:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
wavy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Safety of homebuild Helicopters

JohnO wrote:
Hi,

Can someone point me to any official accident statistics that would
demonstrate the relative accident rates of various classes of certified
and experimental helos? Specifically I would want to exclude any
accidents that were pilot error or failure of maintenance. and only
consider accidents where there was a design fault

I'm interested to know how safe the design is on the various kit helos,
in particular for Rotorway in the KISS turbine version.

It concerns me that a lot of the luminaries of the kit helicopter world
such as Schramm and Bedo have died in accidents, but I'm not sure if
the reasons were faults in the aircraft or pilot error.

Cheers,
JohnO


Just look up Mini 500 in the NTSB database.

I think that might dissuade you from at least one possibitlity....
=WaVy

  #8  
Old December 9th 06, 08:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
John_F
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Safety of homebuild Helicopters

There were about 500 mini 500's sold and about 100 to 150 flying.
There are at least 11 deaths as of three years ago that I know of
flying the mini 500. You calculate the odds.

Mr Fetters claims the design is fine however when a 60,000 hour
professional helicopter pilot dies in one I took notice. I have lost
three friends to this machine.
John

On 8 Dec 2006 20:09:29 -0800, "wavy" wrote:

JohnO wrote:
Hi,

Can someone point me to any official accident statistics that would
demonstrate the relative accident rates of various classes of certified
and experimental helos? Specifically I would want to exclude any
accidents that were pilot error or failure of maintenance. and only
consider accidents where there was a design fault

I'm interested to know how safe the design is on the various kit helos,
in particular for Rotorway in the KISS turbine version.

It concerns me that a lot of the luminaries of the kit helicopter world
such as Schramm and Bedo have died in accidents, but I'm not sure if
the reasons were faults in the aircraft or pilot error.

Cheers,
JohnO


Just look up Mini 500 in the NTSB database.

I think that might dissuade you from at least one possibitlity....
=WaVy


  #9  
Old December 9th 06, 10:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
Steve R
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 34
Default Safety of homebuild Helicopters (Mini-500)


"Dennis Fetters" wrote in message
. net...
John_F wrote:
There were about 500 mini 500's sold and about 100 to 150 flying.
There are at least 11 deaths as of three years ago that I know of
flying the mini 500. You calculate the odds.

Mr Fetters claims the design is fine however when a 60,000 hour
professional helicopter pilot dies in one I took notice. I have lost
three friends to this machine.
John



It's a real shame when people throw out comments like this without the
proof to back it up. I'm not interested in debating with clowns like this,
I'm just to busy, but for those of you that are interested in facts, here
is a complete accident report concerning the Mini-500 below that speaks
the story for it's self.


significant stippage in the interest of brevety

Too busy? You're obviously not too busy to bother to respond to posts like
this, which is something I've wondered why you "still" bother to do after
all this time?

The Mini 500, regardless of it's merits (good or bad) as an experimental
helicopter is history. As you pointed out, there is no factory support,
there are no parts availability except for what a resourceful builder/owner
can come up with on their own. The machine's reliability (or lack thereof)
and your companies support of it (or lack thereof) has been debated and
re-debated adnausium for what, 10 years now? Seems to me that it's time to
move on. All the minds that really care have been made up for a "long" time
now and neither side is going to change the others.

Take care, have a nice life, and give a rest, will ya?
(that applies to all of you, not just Mr. Fetters!)

Steve R.


  #10  
Old December 9th 06, 10:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
Dennis Fetters
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 108
Default Safety of homebuild Helicopters (Mini-500)

Steve R wrote:
Seems to me that it's time to
move on.


I couldn't agree more............ But, I'm not the one bringing it up. I
have the right to tell the truth when someone else puts out faults
information about the Mini-500 or myself, just as you do if the shoe was
on your foot.

Dennis Fetters

 




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