Need recommendation on accelerated IFR courses

"Roy Smith" wrote in message

A lot of people on this group were acting
like being asked to "say intentions" when their flight-planned route
turned
out to be unavailable was a major crisis.

I agree with your point but not your example. Sometimes the most
experienced IFR pilots have the mindset and judgment to question ATC
rather than accept whatever is given and sometimes that is essential
for safe IFR flight.

If you sorted the responses to that situation, I think you would find
fair representation by capable and experienced IFR pilots on both sides
of the
issue.

Y'All,
I have prepared pilots to take Field's program. A California trained pilot
has great difficulty getting truly hard IFR experience. An IFR rating in
California does not prepare you for what you will meet in
Great Lakes, Northwest, Southwest and the Midwest.

You can get the basics in California but Field (He is named after his
father's airport) will train you to be a survivor. His program is the
best available for those who require the best possible experiences in an
accellerated realistic program. Not everybody can take it and make it.
Field has a syllabus for your local CFI to use before you
fly to Wisconsin.

He also has taken some of my pilots to the Bahamas and Alaska.

Gene Whitt

"Gene Whitt" wrote in message
ink.net...
Y'All,
I have prepared pilots to take Field's program. A California trained
pilot has great difficulty getting truly hard IFR experience. An IFR
rating in California does not prepare you for what you will meet in
Great Lakes, Northwest, Southwest and the Midwest.

You can get the basics in California but Field (He is named after his
father's airport) will train you to be a survivor. His program is the
best available for those who require the best possible experiences in an
accellerated realistic program. Not everybody can take it and make it.
Field has a syllabus for your local CFI to use before you
fly to Wisconsin.

He also has taken some of my pilots to the Bahamas and Alaska.

Gene Whitt

Unfortunately the program run by Field and his son Rich has now finished.

I recently did one of those courses.

The best I can say about it is that I am now a genuine US government
certified instrument pilot. I can also say that the procedure cost
me less than others have spent to get the same rating.

The course cut a lot of corners. They sort of, arguably, did
meet the minimum legal standards for such training. To say the
course prepares one to fly IFR would be more than a stretch.
It would be absurd.


Sanjay Kumar wrote:
Folks !

I am planing to get my IFR ticket. preferably in one of accelerated programs.
I have read about a few but I am still looking for one where they take you
on a cross-country ride to say west-coast or Alaska (I am in east) and you
don't shoot same approach twice. AT the end of the trip you take your
checkride. Do you know of such a course ? How do they compare to ones
that remain local ?

thank you,

-Sanjay Kumar

Xxx,

well, since you're the first to really come down hard on these courses
from personal experience, I'd be very interested in WHICH you took.
Could you post this or at least e-mail me the information? Thanks!

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

wrote:

SometimesÂ*theÂ*most
experienced IFR pilots have the mindset and judgment to question ATC
rather than accept whatever is given and sometimes that is essential
for safe IFR flight.

One of the reasons I chose the CFII I did, back when I did, was his comfort
with ATC. It was the start of my education regarding the advantages of a
"well seasoned" CFI. I've since become quite a bigot on that topic, in
fact laugh.

One of the "real world" concepts he taught, in addition to the small matter
of IFR flying, was dealing with ATC. I've found far more seasoned pilots
surprised at my negotiation style, and I owe it all to that instructor.

That said, I have to admit that I'd be disturbed to be in IMC w/o a
clearance to some airport. That's a serious problem just waiting for a
comm failure.

I don't recall whether it was real IMC in that earlier thread to which Roy
referred, though.

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
wrote:

Sometimes the most
experienced IFR pilots have the mindset and judgment to question ATC
rather than accept whatever is given and sometimes that is essential
for safe IFR flight.

One of the reasons I chose the CFII I did, back when I did, was his comfort
with ATC. It was the start of my education regarding the advantages of a
"well seasoned" CFI. I've since become quite a bigot on that topic, in
fact laugh.

One of the "real world" concepts he taught, in addition to the small matter
of IFR flying, was dealing with ATC. I've found far more seasoned pilots
surprised at my negotiation style, and I owe it all to that instructor.


Hello Andrew,

I am interested in this. Are there any other aspects of this style that you would care to share? Or is it
just basically as said above, "don't blindly accept what is given to you by ATC".


Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

John Clonts wrote:

I am interested in this. Are there any other aspects of this style that
you would care to share? Or is it just basically as said above, "don't
blindly accept what is given to you by ATC".

Hmm. I am *not* this CFII (or any CFI {8^), so I'm not sure I can give
"this style" adequate coverage. But from this one student's perspective...

It involves first a recognition that the people behind the ATC microphone
are just that: people. Once that's internalized, a lot of "mic fright"
goes away.

Listening in for a while also helps that. Even the heavy iron drivers make
mistakes too, as do controllers. And that relates to part of our job.
"Communication" and operating under ATC control (ie. IFR, in a class B,
etc.) doesn't mean giving up PIC status.

I just heard a story a couple of evenings ago about a pilot that had a
mishap on a T&G. He actually ran off the runway into the grass, dented the
plane on something (a taxi light?), and then returned to the air.

When he was asked his intentions by the tower, his response was one which
indicated complete abdication. Bad Move. ATC is not there to fly the
plane.

Another aspect is that ATC and pilot are working cooperatively towards a
goal, with that working sometimes overly well defined by the rules. A
contact approach is one example where the controller is precluded from
doing something that might otherwise be helpful (though I've heard funny
stories of 'hints' given {8^).

But within those limits, it's certainly a team approach. We're on the same
side. If you're unhappy with an instruction or a reply, and assuming
conditions permit, you can work together to find an alternative.

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:

Another aspect is that ATC and pilot are working cooperatively towards a
goal, with that working sometimes overly well defined by the rules. A
contact approach is one example where the controller is precluded from
doing something that might otherwise be helpful (though I've heard funny
stories of 'hints' given {8^).

- Andrew

Lots of stories like that, but I'll relate one:

Was stuck at Albany NY with light snow falling. Started up and got the
ATIS which was reporting 2 1/2 miles... beacon was on... called Ground,
and they reported it appeared clearer to the West (our direction of
flight). Sat at the runup pad for many minutes, calling for the
official visibility two or three times. Finally asked if I could get a
"special VFR" out of their. Response from the tower was "We thought
you'd NEVER ask!" Was on my way in minutes.

Rich

Rich wrote:

Lots of stories like that, but I'll relate one:

Was stuck at Albany NY with light snow falling. Started up and got the
ATIS which was reporting 2 1/2 miles... beacon was on... called Ground,
and they reported it appeared clearer to the West (our direction of
flight). Sat at the runup pad for many minutes, calling for the
official visibility two or three times. Finally asked if I could get a
"special VFR" out of their. Response from the tower was "We thought
you'd NEVER ask!" Was on my way in minutes.

In a similar situation, I've had the tower controller ask me: "...is there
anything special you'd like to request?"

Dave