Respriator Questions

Hello group,
Who here has worked with MEK and other wonderful solvents? Where did
you get your respirator gear from, and what models? The filter ones
available in the chain "hardware" stores have fairly vague
specifications on the labels: usually suitable for aromatics,
solvents, etc. This is not something I wish to leave up to chance.
Do I need to fork over the big bucks on this one and pay for a forced
air system?

Thanks in advance.

speculation: an organic vapor cartride should be adequate...

Comment based on professional experience: If you want to be assured of a
respirator doing its job, you need to be fit tested. If you ask really
nicely down at the local hospital's occupational health dept, or offer
to buy them lunch, you might be able to get them to do a saccharin fit
test for you. A HEPA filter is appropriate for the fit test session. If
you want a good fit you need a clean shaven face for the test and during
actual use (clean over the mask seal.. mustache is ok). For a non-IDLH
(non-deadly) atmosphere this should suffice. My background on this was
conducting testing for, and using equipment, in deadly atmospheres as
both a firefighter and an industrial safety vendor.

Dave

Jim Carriere wrote:
Hello group,
Who here has worked with MEK and other wonderful solvents? Where did
you get your respirator gear from, and what models? The filter ones
available in the chain "hardware" stores have fairly vague
specifications on the labels: usually suitable for aromatics, solvents,
etc. This is not something I wish to leave up to chance. Do I need to
fork over the big bucks on this one and pay for a forced air system?

Thanks in advance.

Dave S wrote:
speculation: an organic vapor cartride should be adequate...


This is one area where speculation can get you killed. Take the five
minuets or so it will require and call someone like Lab Safety and get
the correct answer and a proper recomendation for the exact chemicals
you are going to use and the anticipated accumulative exposure time. It
my require multiple cartridges for what you plan on doing. They can
also tell you the cart. life after opening.
Craig C.

See..that was the nice part about supplied air and self contained air
units... didnt have to mess with cartrides.. thats the part thats NOT in
my knowledge bank.. fit testing and mask seals, however.. are..

Thanks for the further info.

Dave

wrote:
Dave S wrote:

speculation: an organic vapor cartride should be adequate...



This is one area where speculation can get you killed. Take the five
minuets or so it will require and call someone like Lab Safety and get
the correct answer and a proper recomendation for the exact chemicals
you are going to use and the anticipated accumulative exposure time. It
my require multiple cartridges for what you plan on doing. They can
also tell you the cart. life after opening.
Craig C.

"Jim Carriere" wrote in message
...
Hello group,
Who here has worked with MEK and other wonderful solvents? Where did
you get your respirator gear from, and what models? The filter ones
available in the chain "hardware" stores have fairly vague
specifications on the labels: usually suitable for aromatics,
solvents, etc. This is not something I wish to leave up to chance.
Do I need to fork over the big bucks on this one and pay for a forced
air system?

Thanks in advance.


You need not pay a ton for a forced air system. I made my own, from stuff I
had around the shop, for less than 20 bucks.

I used a respirator, and took off the cartridge on one side, and duct taped
a 1" PVC elbow onto it, and closed off the other cartridge with duct tape.

I went down to the big box hardware store, and got 50 feet of 1 1/4" bilge
hose (any light plastic pipe will do) and fastened it to a little squirrel
cage blower I rescued from the trash, long ago. A substitute would be a
large size muffin fan (like for computer cooling) enclosed in a small box so
you could couple the bilge hose on the high pressure side.

Other notes, on this. Don't use compressed air from a regular air
compressor. Make sure the air flow is adequate to keep flowing out of the
exhale valve, even when you are inhaling. With positive pressure, the
leaking duct tape will not be an issue.

I saw something along this line suggested on this group, some time ago. It
worked very well for me when I sprayed my son's car with urethane enamel. I
never smelled the least bit of the paint. I guess Rube would be proud! g
--
Jim in NC

Jim, you are a king. Thanks for posting this kind of inexpensive solution.
I did a complete recovering job on my Challenger last year and really wished
I could have had this system. Even with an ordinary respirator, it's a pain.

Thanks a thousands

Jean-Paul
Qc. Canada
"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Jim Carriere" wrote in message
...
Hello group,
Who here has worked with MEK and other wonderful solvents? Where did
you get your respirator gear from, and what models? The filter ones
available in the chain "hardware" stores have fairly vague
specifications on the labels: usually suitable for aromatics,
solvents, etc. This is not something I wish to leave up to chance.
Do I need to fork over the big bucks on this one and pay for a forced
air system?

Thanks in advance.


You need not pay a ton for a forced air system. I made my own, from stuff
I
had around the shop, for less than 20 bucks.

I used a respirator, and took off the cartridge on one side, and duct
taped
a 1" PVC elbow onto it, and closed off the other cartridge with duct tape.

I went down to the big box hardware store, and got 50 feet of 1 1/4" bilge
hose (any light plastic pipe will do) and fastened it to a little squirrel
cage blower I rescued from the trash, long ago. A substitute would be a
large size muffin fan (like for computer cooling) enclosed in a small box
so
you could couple the bilge hose on the high pressure side.

Other notes, on this. Don't use compressed air from a regular air
compressor. Make sure the air flow is adequate to keep flowing out of the
exhale valve, even when you are inhaling. With positive pressure, the
leaking duct tape will not be an issue.

I saw something along this line suggested on this group, some time ago.
It
worked very well for me when I sprayed my son's car with urethane enamel.
I
never smelled the least bit of the paint. I guess Rube would be proud!
g
--
Jim in NC

Jim,

The suggestion of how to fabricate an inexpensive fresh air mask is a
good one, but don't be afraid of single or twin cartridge respirator
masks. An automotive paint store will have the organic type filters and
well fitting masks that will work perfectly for these paint solvents. A
whiff of MEK or acetone or any other paint thinner is not going to
destroy your liver. If your mask shifts so that it is not sealing
properly you will smell the solvent and correct the problem.

The one disadvantage I find with the fresh air mask is having to deal
with the hose following me around as I duck and bend to shoot paint on
all the parts. I improved my home made system by using small tube from my
compressor, 1/4", at 90 psi to an adjustable valve attached to my belt.
The valve let me regulate the pressure and flow to the modified mask and
only a small tube followed me around the fuselage as I painted. The only
time I use the fresh air mask is when shooting two part urethane because
it contains isocyanates. Epoxies an solvent based paints are completely
filtered by the charcoal type organic filter cartridges.

Jim Carriere wrote:

Hello group,
Who here has worked with MEK and other wonderful solvents? Where did
you get your respirator gear from, and what models? The filter ones
available in the chain "hardware" stores have fairly vague
specifications on the labels: usually suitable for aromatics,
solvents, etc. This is not something I wish to leave up to chance.
Do I need to fork over the big bucks on this one and pay for a forced
air system?

Thanks in advance.

Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"

| Publishing interesting material
| on all aspects of alternative
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.

Bruce A. Frank wrote:

...

The one disadvantage I find with the fresh air mask is having to deal
with the hose following me around as I duck and bend to shoot paint
on
all the parts. I improved my home made system by using small tube
from my
compressor, 1/4", at 90 psi to an adjustable valve attached to my
belt.

Uh, how do you get 90 psi? Common air compressers contaminate the air
with oil and are unsafe for breathing.

Do you have something like the compressors used to fill scuba tanks?

... Epoxies an solvent based paints are completely
filtered by the charcoal type organic filter cartridges.


Activated carbon filters don't stop anything 100% But they
typically stop organics quite well up until 'breakthrough' as
it is called, occurs. Thereafter the concentration coming
through rapidly rises until it is the same as in the incomming
air. Long befor then you should begin to smell the contaminant,
depending on what it is. One peculularity of activated carbon
filters is that once breakthrough has occurred the filter
will begin to contaminate clean air that passes through it.

Also keep in mind that if you do not have an external air supply
you must have adequate oxygen in the ambient air. Many fatalities
have occurred when someone used a filter-type respirator in a
confined area where the contaminants have displaced the oxygen
in the air--for example underground gasoline tanks or coal bins
using a nitrogen fire suppression system.

That is probably NOT a consideration for spraypainting unless
you're spraying in a closed room.

--

FF

My compressor has an in-line filter system that removes any oil
vapor...which is the only possible contaminate. The line filter is very
similar to the filter in the respirator and I did forget to add that the
air going into my modified mask is going through the organic filter on the
mask.

The levels of solvents that may get through the proper fitting paint
respirator before you begin to smell it is inconsequential with virtually
no impact on your body. BTW, I have never had a flow of solvent smell
through the mask because I change the canisters before each paint session.

You are aware that that whiff of gasoline vapor you get when fueling your
car has more harmful impact that several hours of paint with a properly
serviced and well fitted paint respirator. But then again, back in the day
when the automotive manufacturers still had humans painting the cars, even
though they used fresh air masks, painters had the shortest life span of
all industrial workers. Maybe we should pass a law forbidding anyone except
a professional from painting his project. That's the ticket! After all we
know the average Joe Six-pack doesn't have enough sense to spend his tax
return properly, how in the world can he be expected to educated himself
well enough to use safety equipment properly?

wrote:

Bruce A. Frank wrote:

...

The one disadvantage I find with the fresh air mask is having to deal
with the hose following me around as I duck and bend to shoot paint
on
all the parts. I improved my home made system by using small tube
from my
compressor, 1/4", at 90 psi to an adjustable valve attached to my
belt.

Uh, how do you get 90 psi? Common air compressers contaminate the air
with oil and are unsafe for breathing.

Do you have something like the compressors used to fill scuba tanks?

... Epoxies an solvent based paints are completely
filtered by the charcoal type organic filter cartridges.


Activated carbon filters don't stop anything 100% But they
typically stop organics quite well up until 'breakthrough' as
it is called, occurs. Thereafter the concentration coming
through rapidly rises until it is the same as in the incomming
air. Long befor then you should begin to smell the contaminant,
depending on what it is. One peculularity of activated carbon
filters is that once breakthrough has occurred the filter
will begin to contaminate clean air that passes through it.

Also keep in mind that if you do not have an external air supply
you must have adequate oxygen in the ambient air. Many fatalities
have occurred when someone used a filter-type respirator in a
confined area where the contaminants have displaced the oxygen
in the air--for example underground gasoline tanks or coal bins
using a nitrogen fire suppression system.

That is probably NOT a consideration for spraypainting unless
you're spraying in a closed room.

--

FF

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
..

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:45:24 GMT, "Bruce A. Frank"
wrote:

My compressor has an in-line filter system that removes any oil
vapor...which is the only possible contaminate. The line filter is very

There's one more. CO. for those who do not incorporate an activated
charcoal filter into their system. Carbon monoxide is developed in
oil type compressors although usually at very small quantities. Some
where around here I have some literature that warms about it as well
as the oil fumes.

similar to the filter in the respirator and I did forget to add that the
air going into my modified mask is going through the organic filter on the
mask.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com