Mxsmanic , IFR sensations, and some other stuff

On May 22, 1:07*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2008 03:33:18 -0700 (PDT), More_Flaps

wrote:
On May 21, 9:59*pm, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:00:25 -0700 (PDT), More_Flaps

wrote:
On May 21, 12:56*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

you need to learn about somatogravic thresholds, the effect of alcohol
on the viscosity of the fluids of the inner ear

How much alcohol are we talking about here? Dies the viscosity of the
endolymph actually change?


yes. you can be quite sober and still have the viscosity reduction
active in your ears some 48 hours or more later.
never, never, never drink alcohol in the week before flying IFR.

do some serious human factors reading. the subject is fascinating.
our human sensations have some amazing limitations.

if you need a good introductory text on human physiology to get some
underlying understanding I can recommend 'Human Anatomy and
Physiology' by Elaine N Marieb. It is published by Pearson Benjamin
Cummings in san francisco. excellent!

I've got several physiology/toxicology text books but I can't see a
reference to _viscosity_ changes in endolymph with alcohol. Are you
sure you mean viscosity and not density?

Cheers

I mean exactly what I wrote.

human factors stuff is reasonably new. it is probable that the
research in the human factors work doesnt make it into the other text
books because it is fairly specialised.
btw I dont quote human factors books because I was taught this stuff
in my commercial pilot studies. it is standard modern australian
commercial level aviation knowledge.


Hmm. As fas as viscosity changes go, gravitational sensing does not
require movement of endolymph. A small change in viscosity of
endolymph due to alcohol (EtOH) is not likely to do much except
_reduce_ rotational accleration sensation a little. There are no
scientific papers describing this effect as far as I know, just my
prediction based on how the labarynth works. The change in density of
the endolymph is the real problem as it affects the buoyancy of
cupula. Research has shown that this buoyancy hypothesis can explain
most of effects (e.g. PAN I & II) but there are additional central
effects due to nueronal signal processing that appears degraded by
EfOH. So in summary, if your testbook (a basic book targeted to nurses
and sports scientists) says "viscosity" it is probably either a typo
or factual error, cross it out and replace it with density and the
descrition of the buoyancy effects of EtOH .The reason why I asked you
to check on your claim of viscosity effects was that I had not heard
of this before.

Here's a relevant paper for you:

New insights into positional alcohol nystagmus using three-dimensional
eye-movement analysis.
Fetter M, Haslwanter T, Bork M, Dichgans J.Ann Neurol. 1999 Feb;45(2):
216-23.

Hope this helps with your studies and teaching human factors.

Cheers





the otoreports of this to my knowlege. HoViscosity of the endolymph is
not lilely to be a problem as it does not affect rotait is the density
chnage that leads to

On May 22, 6:00*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Tina writes:
As for a sim flight taking as long to get somewhere as one in a real
airplane? What an odd mind you have. When we arrive somewhere we are
actually there. We can meet with friends who live there, dine with
them, play golf, whatever.

I simulate for the sake of flying. *I'm not interested in meeting friends,
dining, or playing golf. *I'm only interested in flying. *The sim has the
advantage in this respect.

That's not healthy. You should talk to a physician about this and
he'll refer you to the right people.

Cheers

On Tue, 20 May 2008 21:00:11 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:

On Sun, 18 May 2008 23:46:31 -0400, Gezellig
wrote:


Being primarily creatures earthbound (land underfoot), where feelings
are our primary sources of instrument accuracy (speed in a car, wind in
our hair), its kewl to trust those sensory inputs. A lot of
day-in/day-out experiences too.


so totally incompetent a viewpoint that you are stunning.

I see. Because I interact in a thread, and am newer at piloting than
you, you get to act like an asshole and treat me with high disdain. This
embellishes your ego, strikes you in a positive way, makes your life
happy as a clam.

I, because of my age and newness, am incompetent. I must wait until I am
as bright as you, hunt Usenet like a jaguar and pounce on newbies,
again, emulating you and acting like an asshole.

I wasn't aware of the privileges of experience. I can hardly wait. to
become the next BunnyIP, Bendover or StealthSockPuppet pilot.

In the meantime, let me practice.

Outside of piloting data, is there anything except rocks and pebbles in
your cranium? To elaborate, my suggestion is that before posting you
should give your head a shake to determine if there is anything inside
and to consider whether you really wished to make the fact public.

Gee, I feel like IFRed already.

On May 19, 9:07*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
There no sensation is; there only instrument is.

OMG!!!!!...I didn't realize Anthony A was actually Yoda!! Forgive me
O Wise One!!! I must now un-learn what I have learned! A dark place
entered have we.

--Jeff
Only a Jedi Apprentice

On May 21, 8:56*am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
For reasons known only to them, some posters here are going to extraordinary
lengths to prove that "seat of the pants" sensations are a part of IFR
flight -- even though every published source (and every expert here) has
agreed with MX's statements to the contrary.

It's like they are willing to go to ANY length to try to prove the statement
wrong simply because the source (in this case) was a non-pilot. * I don't
know what mysterious power MX has over some participants in this group, but
it's downright creepy.

I will be the first to admit that I have zero knowledge of the topic,
which is why I have been watching the posts to see how this played
out.

But from what I have seen so far, I would have to agree with your
observation, especially the comment about going to Paris to shoot
Mxsmanic:

Prosecutor: "So let me get this straight...you shot him because..."
Shooter: "..because he's an idiot!"
Prosecutor: "Certainly that cannot be the only reason..."
Shooter: "Yes, that's pretty much it. We felt that we would be better
off without his posts."
Prosecutor: "But you are an American. What happened to all that
freedom-of-speech stuff?"
Shooter: "That applies to everyone except MxsManic."
Prosecutor: "Why?"
Shooter: "Because he is an idiot, and we do not like what he says, and
he makes me and my USENET pals angry."

-Le Chaud Lapin-

On Wed, 21 May 2008 21:07:01 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:

if you need a good introductory text on human physiology to get some
underlying understanding I can recommend 'Human Anatomy and
Physiology' by Elaine N Marieb. It is published by Pearson Benjamin
Cummings in san francisco. excellent!


I've got several physiology/toxicology text books but I can't see a
reference to _viscosity_ changes in endolymph with alcohol. Are you
sure you mean viscosity and not density?


Cheers

I mean exactly what I wrote.

human factors stuff is reasonably new. it is probable that the
research in the human factors work doesnt make it into the other text
books because it is fairly specialised.
btw I dont quote human factors books because I was taught this stuff
in my commercial pilot studies. it is standard modern australian
commercial level aviation knowledge.

Stealth Pilot

Reasonably new? like is WWII reasonably new? Considering WWII planes
were designed around human factors, ergonomics and included designs from
the input of physiologists, kinesiologists and biomechanists?

On Mon, 19 May 2008 22:13:00 -0400, Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:

But the real question is, why am I wasting key clicks on Mxsmanic?

Did you answer this? If so, repost, I missed it and I am curious.

On May 22, 7:39 am, Buster Hymen wrote:

The aircraft has six seats, including those of the pilot(s).

Thanks, Anthony. You just proved you're an even bigger doofus.

Wow. We pilots have seats?
Who let the secret out ?

On Wed, 21 May 2008 17:59:22 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:

On May 21, 12:56*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

you need to learn about somatogravic thresholds, the effect of alcohol
on the viscosity of the fluids of the inner ear

How much alcohol are we talking about here? Dies the viscosity of the
endolymph actually change?

Cheers

yes. you can be quite sober and still have the viscosity reduction
active in your ears some 48 hours or more later.
never, never, never drink alcohol in the week before flying IFR.

Up to a week? Endolymphatic viscosity reduction lasts a week after a
shot of port wine?

do some serious human factors reading. the subject is fascinating.
our human sensations have some amazing limitations.

Is that why I sense that the above posting re; ETOH is the equivalent of
donkey turds on a newsgroup?

On Tue, 20 May 2008 03:07:09 +0200, Mxsmanic wrote:

No.

To save you time, I read parts of the discussions around you. I don't
ever read you.

Just so you know. March on.