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#1
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Power Commercial to Glider Commercial
I'm looking at adding a commercial glider rating this summer. Never been in a
glider, but my hunch is that it will be a good learning experience even though I'll never fly one for hire. So ... trying to divine the meaning of Part 61.129(f)2 "20 flights in a glider as PIC" and "5 solo flights" But ... I can't log PIC time while getting dual instruction since I'm not rated in the airplane. So, I'm really looking at 20 solo flights. Right? (The only way I could see someone having 20 flights as PIC and but only 5 solo flights would be if the person had a fairly new Private glider rating and then took dual for the Commercial. Right?) TIA |
#2
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Guess you did not read the whole story......
it says 3 h of flight instruction with an instuctor, and they mention OR 10 Training Flights with an instructor..... Which I would say should be INCLUDING, since in good Soaring conditions the 3 hrs could be done in one flight. On the other hand, a good instructor would not let you solo until you learnt good aproaches and landings, not to mention aero tow practice, which might take up all of the 3 hrs. Among other items, the 5 solo flights are for demonstrating, that you actually learnt how to SOAR, meaning that you can stay up for a while! Which was not required before....years back. Then you might be ready for your 20 flights, which could be done in the pattern.(short) which I would not recomend. This is how I interpret 61.129 f AND This would be for an applicant who is testpilot material. You know yourself that different people have different talents and learning curves. |
#3
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On 3/13/05 10:12 AM, soarski wrote the following: Guess you did not read the whole story...... it says 3 h of flight instruction with an instuctor, and they mention OR 10 Training Flights with an instructor..... That's not the part that is unclear. That's why I didn't mention it. The question is whether I need 20 solo flights in order to have 20 flights as PIC. Which it appears that I do. |
#4
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Good boy........Or Girl?
Before you can be a PIC, you have to learn how to fly the aircraft. You know how to fly an airplane, but not the aircraft that is called a glider..........It is a different animal! Take your first lesson! |
#5
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As I see it, and I'm not the final authority.. only a CFIG with a few other
power ratings thrown in: (2) 200 hours of flight time as a pilot in heavier-than-air aircraft and at least 20 flights in a glider as pilot in command, including at least- (i) 3 hours of flight training in a glider or 10 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(6) of this part including at least 3 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test; and (ii) 5 solo flights in a glider on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(6) of this part. Moving from Commercial Power to Commercial Glider, you need 200hrs power AND 20 flights as Glider PIC. You are correct, you cannot log PIC while taking dual instruction. IF you had a private glider rating, then you could log PIC and DUAL received at the same time. If you have prior Pvt Glider experience, the 20 PIC flight would not be an issue. So, once you have solo'd, you need 20 PIC (solo) flights, and 5 of those should be logged as preparation IAW 61.127(b)(6). Also, 3 of 10 of your instruction flights have to be within the last 60 days prior to check ride and logged as prep flights. I've found by experience, that depending on the past experience of the candidate, that at least 20 dual flights are need in a Grob 103 just to complete the required training events and get the landing "down pat" to solo standards. Pilots that have only flown jets have the hardest time. Propeller pilots with tail wheel time have the easiest transition. BT "Mitty" wrote in message ... I'm looking at adding a commercial glider rating this summer. Never been in a glider, but my hunch is that it will be a good learning experience even though I'll never fly one for hire. So ... trying to divine the meaning of Part 61.129(f)2 "20 flights in a glider as PIC" and "5 solo flights" But ... I can't log PIC time while getting dual instruction since I'm not rated in the airplane. So, I'm really looking at 20 solo flights. Right? (The only way I could see someone having 20 flights as PIC and but only 5 solo flights would be if the person had a fairly new Private glider rating and then took dual for the Commercial. Right?) TIA |
#6
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I don't want to be a killjoy, but I do have a question:
Why, if you have never been in a glider and plan never to rent one, do you want to start off by planning to add a commercial rating right off the bat? I encourage you to get the private pilot glider rating and get some experience before adding the glider commercial. Don't go for bragging rights with absolutely no depth; you won't impress anyone except those not worthy of the effort. At 16:00 13 March 2005, Mitty wrote: I'm looking at adding a commercial glider rating this summer. Never been in a glider, but my hunch is that it will be a good learning experience even though I'll never fly one for hire. So ... trying to divine the meaning of Part 61.129(f)2 '20 flights in a glider as PIC' and '5 solo flights' But ... I can't log PIC time while getting dual instruction since I'm not rated in the airplane. So, I'm really looking at 20 solo flights. Right? (The only way I could see someone having 20 flights as PIC and but only 5 solo flights would be if the person had a fairly new Private glider rating and then took dual for the Commercial. Right?) TIA |
#7
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"Mitty" wrote in message news On 3/13/05 10:12 AM, soarski wrote the following: Guess you did not read the whole story...... it says 3 h of flight instruction with an instuctor, and they mention OR 10 Training Flights with an instructor..... That's not the part that is unclear. That's why I didn't mention it. The question is whether I need 20 solo flights in order to have 20 flights as PIC. Which it appears that I do. As an instructor at a commercial glider operation, I think that you, like most powered aircraft transition pilots, may be underestimating how difficult this transition is. Today's SEL training programs place little emphasis on basic airmanship, concentrating instead on things like instrument flying and radio procedures. While difficult, a glider transition is a tremendous amount of fun and it WILL make you a better pilot. Flying a glider requires a very high level of pure "stick and rudder" airmanship. I bet the first time you take the controls of a glider you are going to feel like a pre-solo student. The coordination standards are so tight that a slip or skid that wouldn't even register on a ball will put our yaw strings 30 degrees out of line - I want it dead center. That's only one thing of many that soarski is referring to. Go start your lessons. You'll be amazed at what you learn. Bill Daniels |
#8
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On 3/13/05 10:55 AM, BTIZ wrote the following: Moving from Commercial Power to Commercial Glider, you need 200hrs power AND 20 flights as Glider PIC. You are correct, you cannot log PIC while taking dual instruction. IF you had a private glider rating, then you could log PIC and DUAL received at the same time. If you have prior Pvt Glider experience, the 20 PIC flight would not be an issue. So, once you have solo'd, you need 20 PIC (solo) flights, and 5 of those should be logged as preparation IAW 61.127(b)(6). OK, that's what I thought. It must be very unusual for someone to have the 20 PIC flights with a much smaller number of solos. I've found by experience, that depending on the past experience of the candidate, that at least 20 dual flights are need in a Grob 103 just to complete the required training events and get the landing "down pat" to solo standards. Pilots that have only flown jets have the hardest time. Propeller pilots with tail wheel time have the easiest transition. Piper driver here. & I'm not planning to set any speed records on the training. Whatever it takes, it takes. Thanks for the confirmation on my FAR-ology. |
#9
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Mitty wrote: But ... I can't log PIC time while getting dual instruction since I'm not rated in the airplane. So, I'm really looking at 20 solo flights. Right? ================================================== ============================== That's right and the fixed part of the training. As mentioned by others, the variable is the time to solo. At the commercial operation where I teach/check, we have many visitors that complete their training in a few days. A few solo in a handful of flights, but the average will be in the 15-20 range assuming the use of the Schweizer 2-33. The Grob 103 will take longer since its characteristics are less forgiving. Working hard and with cooperative weather, you have a good chance to finish the rating in 5 days. Four for training and a checkride on the fifth. This assumes that you solo early on the second day, complete the solos on the third or early on the fourth, with the balance of the fourth day in checkride prep. If you are a competent stick and rudder pilot and not a slave to GeePS wizz stuff, this is a very realistic shedule. You need to ensure that there are gliders, tows, instructors, and finally an examiner available to complete within your schedule. Good luck with your plan. Terry Claussen Estrella |
#10
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"Nyal Williams" wrote in message
... I don't want to be a killjoy, but I do have a question: Why, if you have never been in a glider and plan never to rent one, do you want to start off by planning to add a commercial rating right off the bat? A glider add on rating counts as a BFR.. is your going to do it, and already hold a commercial rating.. the difference between the Commercial and Pvt on the check ride is the prep time.. the PTS is practically identical... Why not add a rating for a BFR... Seaplane? Glider? BT |
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