Least Expensive Plane To Buy and Own

wrote:
: I thought it was *really* annoying and doesn't add *anything* to the message?
:
: ;-)
:

: I'd comment, but my experience with Ph.D.s (I work with a lot of them)
: is that they aren't teachable. :-)

: Matt

Already taught as much as will fit, eh?


:-)

That don't call it Piled Higher and Deeper for nothing! :-)

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote:

Piled Higher and Deeper

Heh.

Haven't heard that one since the '60s.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

On Aug 24, 9:44 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Aug 24, 6:14 am, Dave Butler wrote:

Michael Adams wrote:
I am looking for some input on the least expensive airplanes to own. I've
heard so many horror stories about the $5000 or even $15,000 annual, or the
seat adjuster that costs $600, that I thought I would get some input on this
before buying. So I'm looking for low purchase price (used), low repair and
parts costs, and low $ per hour to run.

Piper Cub
Aeronca Champ

Both those planes may find a rib rubbing and result in a $10,000
annual. I had this happen with the Aeronca Chief and my neighbor with
his Piper Cub.

-Robert

The Champ has an AD against the wooden spars. If the AD
is done properly, cracks are found in too many of of them. And a
cracked spar has to be replaced, not an inexpensive job, or the wings
can be replaced with brand-new aluminum-spar wings from American
Champion, another option that isn't cheap.
Those wooden spars crack in several ways: 1) At the strut
attach plywood doubler, where it creates a locally stiffened area, and
the spar tends to suffer compression cracks at the ends of the
doublers; 2) The ribs are aluminum and are fastened to the spar with
small nails through a flange on the rib, and as the spar shrinks
widthwise with age, those nails force the grain apart and cracks
appear in the spar faces; and 3) Cracks have been noted at the spar
butt connection holes.
None of this is good news. And further, the steel struts on
these older Champs are known to rust out from the inside; I flew a
number of hours on one before another mechanic stuck his awl clean
through the strut during an annual.
The small Continentals found on these airplanes sometimes
need TLC on the valves, and the crankshafts in many of them aren't
nitrided and wear rapidly (especially the front journals, farthest
from the oil pump) once the bearings wear and the oil pressure
falls.
I don't think there are any airplanes guaranteed not to
present unpleasant surprises of some sort. Been around aviation long
enough to think so. And as a mechanic, many owner wannabes come to me
and they often have some particular airplane they're looking at and
want my advice on what it might cost. Then they don't like what I tell
them, buy the airplane anyway and find out the hard way that it can
cost a lot more than they initially thought.
This isn't to discourage airplane ownership. It's just to warn
that you need to be really careful, and get a thorough, independent
inspection done before buying. Remember that the previous owner most
likely didn't want to spend any more than necessary on it.

Dan

Jay,

A small nit: A Cherokee 140 is a radically different (and far
cheaper) bird than the Piper Warrior.


You're correct. Sorry.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Xyzzy,

Yup, I've had the bug on and off and no matter how I run the numbers I
can't justify it unless I have lots of mad money on hand, which I
don't. You can't beat a good flying club for the right balance
between value and availability.


Whenever your requirements include longer trips with little flying time
(e.g. fly to a nice place an hour or two away, stay for three or four
days and fly back), both rentals and most flying clubs aren't an option.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

, but the Cessna 150's have been holding their resale
value rock solid even throughout the used plane market slump over the
past year or so...


Doesn't that contradict the "cheap to buy" requirement?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

In a previous article, said:
Whenever your requirements include longer trips with little flying time
(e.g. fly to a nice place an hour or two away, stay for three or four
days and fly back), both rentals and most flying clubs aren't an option.

Flying clubs are. I regularly fly a club plane to Ottawa (1.75 hours
flight time) and then stay for two or three days. I've flown to Oshkosh
(4.5 hours flight time) and let it sit for 8 days. Not all flying clubs
are douchebags about minimum flying hours per day.


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else." -
- Delenn, Babylon 5

Paul Tomblin wrote:
: In a previous article, said:
: Whenever your requirements include longer trips with little flying time
: (e.g. fly to a nice place an hour or two away, stay for three or four
: days and fly back), both rentals and most flying clubs aren't an option.

: Flying clubs are. I regularly fly a club plane to Ottawa (1.75 hours
: flight time) and then stay for two or three days. I've flown to Oshkosh
: (4.5 hours flight time) and let it sit for 8 days. Not all flying clubs
: are douchebags about minimum flying hours per day.

... but I think most probably are. Unless you're in a *large* flying club (more than 3-4 planes, with multiple ones
in the same class), it's not an option. Most I've seen have one or at most two of the "primary trainer class" (e.g. Cessna
150/152), "instrument trainer class" (e.g. Cherokee 140/180), "complex-trainer class" (e.g. Arrow/Mooney/172RG), or
"twin-trainer class" (twin Commanche, etc). Most of them have high utilizations and have rules structured to discourage
weekend trips.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Aug 24, 11:59 am, "John T." wrote:

Renting and buying are just different products. They both give you a
ride in something with a propeller and wings, but that's about it. How
do you compare the cost of steak versus hamburger? You can get a
number, but what does it mean? They are just different experiences.



That's part of our point. The OP is asking what the best hamburger to
buy is and we're saying hamburgers are for renting.

-Robert


I think the OP asked what the cheapest airplane to own is, so it could
be more of a serloin or T-bone question. It really depends on what
"cheap" is. The OP might consider $50,000 cheap.

Margy

True, and the cost to buy is different than the cost to maintain. You
can buy a M20C for about the same price as a C-172 and go much, most
faster, higher, etc but annuals are going to be much more.


I think the OP asked what the cheapest airplane to own is, so it could
be more of a serloin or T-bone question. It really depends on what
"cheap" is. The OP might consider $50,000 cheap.

Margy- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -