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#31
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MVAs in AZ
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:nrctg.664$_M.186@fed1read04... Most controllers do not design MIAs or MVAs. It is a specialty, which requires airspace training beyond what is required to control traffic. Steve is commenting in the abstract, rather than from real-world practices. In alt.binaries.pictures.aviation I have posted a two page PDF that shows both the MIAs (LA Center) and MVAs (Palm Springs TRACON) for an identical portion of the airspace around Palm Springs. The title of the posting is: Palm Springs MIAs MVAs for IFR Group The file is: PSP MIAs and MVAs.pdf Note in particular how much higher the MIA is for the valley floor. This is because the specialist at Los Angeles Center know they have no radar coverage down in that valley, thus the MIA design in this case takes into substantial consideration the center's radar coverage in that area. It's a facility call to design MIAs in accordance with what they consider to be the best fit for their airspace and terrain. What do you base that on? FAA Order 7210.3 says MVAs are established irrespective of the flight-checked radar coverage, that they are based on obstruction clearance criteria only. FAA Order 7210.37 says MIAs are to be established without respect to normal radar coverage. Have these orders been rescinded? |
#32
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MVAs in AZ
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:_Actg.665$_M.641@fed1read04... To see how much higher the MIAs are over the Palm Springs valley than the MVAs. Why? What's your point? |
#33
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MVAs in AZ
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:nrctg.664$_M.186@fed1read04... Most controllers do not design MIAs or MVAs. It is a specialty, which requires airspace training beyond what is required to control traffic. Steve is commenting in the abstract, rather than from real-world practices. In alt.binaries.pictures.aviation I have posted a two page PDF that shows both the MIAs (LA Center) and MVAs (Palm Springs TRACON) for an identical portion of the airspace around Palm Springs. The title of the posting is: Palm Springs MIAs MVAs for IFR Group The file is: PSP MIAs and MVAs.pdf Note in particular how much higher the MIA is for the valley floor. This is because the specialist at Los Angeles Center know they have no radar coverage down in that valley, thus the MIA design in this case takes into substantial consideration the center's radar coverage in that area. It's a facility call to design MIAs in accordance with what they consider to be the best fit for their airspace and terrain. What do you base that on? FAA Order 7210.3 says MVAs are established irrespective of the flight-checked radar coverage, that they are based on obstruction clearance criteria only. FAA Order 7210.37 says MIAs are to be established without respect to normal radar coverage. Have these orders been rescinded? No, the orders are guidance, but no one is going to criticize a center for using radar coverage as a floor in a terrain-laden area like the Palm Springs area. The MVA and MIA charts I posted a couple of months ago for that area made that quite clear. |
#34
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MVAs in AZ
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:_Actg.665$_M.641@fed1read04... To see how much higher the MIAs are over the Palm Springs valley than the MVAs. Why? What's your point? That obstacle clearance was not the driving factor for ZLA's MIAs in the Palm Springs area; center radar coverage was. |
#35
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MVAs in AZ
"Sam Spade" wrote in message ... No, the orders are guidance, but no one is going to criticize a center for using radar coverage as a floor in a terrain-laden area like the Palm Springs area. FAA orders are guidance? They're not mandatory for those affected? What in the wide, wide world of sports do you base that on? Why wouldn't someone who knows how it's supposed to be done criticize a center for doing it improperly? The MVA and MIA charts I posted a couple of months ago for that area made that quite clear. Made what quite clear? That FAA orders are only guidance material, or that no one is going to criticize a center for using radar coverage as a floor in a terrain-laden area like the Palm Springs area? |
#36
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MVAs in AZ
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news That obstacle clearance was not the driving factor for ZLA's MIAs in the Palm Springs area; center radar coverage was. How can you make that conclusion? Based on what you posted all we can know for certain is at least one of the maps was made improperly. |
#37
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MVAs in AZ
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news That obstacle clearance was not the driving factor for ZLA's MIAs in the Palm Springs area; center radar coverage was. How can you make that conclusion? Based on what you posted all we can know for certain is at least one of the maps was made improperly. You should let the Western-Pacific Region know that. That seems to be the right thing for an FAA employee to do. |
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