Apache gun camera video

http://w3.kill-9.com/apache_kills.mpeg

Andrew

sucks to be those guys

-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

"Andrew" wrote in message
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http://w3.kill-9.com/apache_kills.mpeg

Andrew

Saw this a few days ago. This misses the first part of that vid.

The guy in the pickup truck stops, gets out, and talks to the guy in the
larger truck. He then appears to look directly at the Apache, seems to
realize that they are being watched. He then reaches back into the pickup
truck, and pulls out what looks like a RPG or other small shoulder fired
launcher.

He runs out into the field to the left, drops the launcher, and runs back.
This vid starts a few seconds after that.

I think I saw it on Nightline(?).

Pete

"Andrew" wrote in message
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http://w3.kill-9.com/apache_kills.mpeg

Andrew


Although it is amazing to see combat video like this........

Certain things don't look exactly kosher to me...........

1. Does anyone else notice that these Iraqi's were walking up to a tractor,
one was in the drivers seat?

2. After the first Iraqi is killed, the one next to the tractor waves a
piece of cloth in the air - which is a sign of surrender and commonly used
by Iraqi's ......... and the Apache gunner shoots him anyway....

3. The last Iraqi shot, was wounded and rolling on the ground - even though
the gunner reported him wounded he was told to shoot him again
anyway........ so now it is ok to shoot the wounded and those that wish to
surrender?

4. You'll notice even the gunner thought this to be a bit excessive, and he
seems to have targeted the truck on the right - instead of moving forward as
ordered (With the sight) and hitting the wounded iraqi directly...........

So what do we have here........ 3 guys slaughtered that were not carrying
weapons - not pointing anything at anyone........perhaps trying to fix a
busted tractor in the wrong place at the wrong time........

I don't see one weapon that the Iraqi's had..........anywhere in this
video........

"Helomech " wrote

So what do we have here........ 3 guys slaughtered that were not carrying
weapons - not pointing anything at anyone........perhaps trying to fix a
busted tractor in the wrong place at the wrong time........

I don't see one weapon that the Iraqi's had..........anywhere in this
video........

See my other post in this thread. The first part was cut, and had shown what
appeared (to me anyway) to be a shoulder fired weapon of some sort, being
taken out of the pickup truck and tossed out into the field.

Still iffy, though.

Where one might see the whole video, no idea.

Pete

Still iffy, though.

Still iffy in that you're presumably watching three human beings being
killed. Granted, they might not be nice human beings. But in the
paraphrased words of Randy "Duke" Cunningham, "I didn't ever get used to
killing. If you ever get used to killing, I don't think you belong here [on
earth]". Calmly sitting at your PC and watching people die is ghoulish at
best (and I thought it was illegal to show videos of people dying?).

Tony

"Helomech " wrote in message
...

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
http://w3.kill-9.com/apache_kills.mpeg

Andrew


Although it is amazing to see combat video like this........

Certain things don't look exactly kosher to me...........

1. Does anyone else notice that these Iraqi's were walking up to a
tractor,
one was in the drivers seat?

Yep, assumedly some of what was seen is not on this video.

2. After the first Iraqi is killed, the one next to the tractor waves a
piece of cloth in the air - which is a sign of surrender and commonly
used
by Iraqi's ......... and the Apache gunner shoots him anyway....

I wouldn't go that far.
It looks to me that the man by the tractor is tearing the covering off a
bundle.
Just as the cross hairs go back to him you can see something flexible on the
ground in front of him he is "working" with. With his left hand he pulls of
the
cloth with a long jerk that throws his arm and the cloth behind him and
slightly
into the air as he is leaned over. This is not a surrender wave as he drops
that
item and leans farther over and puts his hands to what is left.
In fact if you watch carefully on full screen you can see this guy pulling
something out of the tractor as he disappears of the left side as the gun
tracks
the man that came down off the tractor.
Given the general shape and size of the object "waved" I can't help thinking
"gun case."
At any rate, the waving "in the air" is just the quick back swing of what
ever
cloth removal from what ever source.

3. The last Iraqi shot, was wounded and rolling on the ground - even
though
the gunner reported him wounded he was told to shoot him again
anyway........ so now it is ok to shoot the wounded and those that wish to
surrender?

Wounded, yea, if you just wounded them, they are over there, you are over
here
and you have no means of taking them prisoner.
Surrendering? I see no one trying to surrender.

4. You'll notice even the gunner thought this to be a bit excessive, and
he
seems to have targeted the truck on the right - instead of moving forward
as
ordered (With the sight) and hitting the wounded iraqi directly...........

If you say so.

So what do we have here........ 3 guys slaughtered that were not carrying
weapons - not pointing anything at anyone........perhaps trying to fix a
busted tractor in the wrong place at the wrong time........

It would have been better to capture them. But that requires a patrol in
the area and who says there was one?

I don't see one weapon that the Iraqi's had..........anywhere in this
video........

See more of the video and I'll wager you do.

"Pete" wrote in message
...

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
http://w3.kill-9.com/apache_kills.mpeg

Andrew

Saw this a few days ago. This misses the first part of that vid.

I suspected as much.

"Tony Volk" wrote in message
...
Still iffy, though.

Still iffy in that you're presumably watching three human beings being
killed. Granted, they might not be nice human beings. But in the
paraphrased words of Randy "Duke" Cunningham, "I didn't ever get used to
killing. If you ever get used to killing, I don't think you belong here
[on
earth]". Calmly sitting at your PC and watching people die is ghoulish at
best (and I thought it was illegal to show videos of people dying?).


Ghoulish? Maybe. But it also helps us to understand conditions there, and
what the troops, pilots, and Iraqis are going through. I found it very
disturbing.

The reason I say *iffy* is because We Don't Know.

What were the events leading up to this encounter? Had the Apache simply
happened upon 3 guys out in a field and proceeded to shoot? Or had the
pickup truck been tracked from an earlier encounter? Had the driver already
shot at US troops? Had he already shot at, and missed, the Apache doing the
shooting?

We Don't Know.

The video linked in the post is only about second half of the one I saw on
TV (Nightline, I believe). The part that isn't seen may well lead one to a
different conclusion as to the why and what.

Seeing only the shortened video clip here, I could very easily assume an
overzealous helicopter crew. Possibly even criminal. But that little clip is
by no means the entire story.

We don't know the entire story of this particular encounter.

Pete

Nightline has the video on their web site, but you need to join up to
see it.

Pete wrote:

"Tony Volk" wrote in message
...


Still iffy, though.


Still iffy in that you're presumably watching three human beings being
killed. Granted, they might not be nice human beings. But in the
paraphrased words of Randy "Duke" Cunningham, "I didn't ever get used to
killing. If you ever get used to killing, I don't think you belong here


[on


earth]". Calmly sitting at your PC and watching people die is ghoulish at
best (and I thought it was illegal to show videos of people dying?).




Ghoulish? Maybe. But it also helps us to understand conditions there, and
what the troops, pilots, and Iraqis are going through. I found it very
disturbing.

The reason I say *iffy* is because We Don't Know.

What were the events leading up to this encounter? Had the Apache simply
happened upon 3 guys out in a field and proceeded to shoot? Or had the
pickup truck been tracked from an earlier encounter? Had the driver already
shot at US troops? Had he already shot at, and missed, the Apache doing the
shooting?

We Don't Know.

The video linked in the post is only about second half of the one I saw on
TV (Nightline, I believe). The part that isn't seen may well lead one to a
different conclusion as to the why and what.

Seeing only the shortened video clip here, I could very easily assume an
overzealous helicopter crew. Possibly even criminal. But that little clip is
by no means the entire story.

We don't know the entire story of this particular encounter.

Pete