Flying Club Features

I think having a cheaper rate for students would turn me off, if I
were not
a student. Seems unfair, for the ones with a ticket, to be helping to
pay
for the students.
--
Jim in NC

The rate doesn't go up until you graduate, then its only a $10
increase. This club was founded with the intention of providing cheap
flying to students (not just student pilots). I wouldn't mind helping
to pay for someone elses training since I am getting it cheaper now,
plus by the time that comes up I will probably own or have moved.

So, I guess what I am saying is if you are a pilot, and taking classes
at the school, it is still cheaper. It doesn't change based on
experience, rating, or age. The only way to jump up to $70 is to
graduate, and the only way to get to $80 is to have no affiliation with
the school.

"Andy" writes:
What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in a
flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
would make you want to join a club?

Simple. I would look at the club, and look at other alternatives in
the area, and pick the best one.

What does your competition look like? Your rates are not relevant
without context -- are you in an area which has lots of people who can
afford to fly? If so, are you cheaper or more expensive than the
competition? Do you have better planes? More talented instructors?
How many hours per month do I have to fly to make it worthwhile to
join your club (versus using the local FBO)?

I am currently looking at starting my flight training, and am in
Pittsburgh. I am considering moving to the Bay Area of California for
work. The price difference between those two locations is _huge_.
(Strangely, there is a lot more competition in California, and also
much higher prices. What the market will bear, I assume...)

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

I am a member of East Hill Flying Club in Ithaca, NY. The things that
brought me to the club were
A good fleet of planes (3 152s, 3 172s and a Mooney 201)
Planes are all well maintained
Lower rental rates than available elsewhere ($60/hr, $75/hr & $102/hr
wet, respectively)
The 172s and Mooney all have Garmin 430s
Monthly fees ($45) are lower than renter's insurance with better
coverage
We are a part 141 school which meant starting my Instrument Rating
sooner

The club draws many of its members and students from Cornell University.
It, also, has a training program in affiliation with the local community
college and does Air Force ROTC primary training. The club has 5-6
instructors ($30/hr) on staff at any one time (part-time and full-time).

I would not be thrilled with your 3-tiered rental rate structure. If the
focus of your club is one training, I would purchase a 152. Many of our
students use the 152 for training to reduce costs. Instrument training and
most member rentals are done in the 172s. Another key is marketing. We
have two pancake breakfasts every year and do many discovery flights during
them. One any given weekend there are several discovery flights taking
place.

Bob

"Andy" wrote in message
oups.com...
What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in a
flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
would make you want to join a club?

I feel that our prices are the main deterrent. Students (this is a
school club) pay $60/hr for a C172 (dry), alumi pay $70, and all others
pay $80. This is for a 1998 in good condition. The instructors
usually give club members a reduced price (around $20/hr). The current
club members will also loan out all training materials to further
reduce the cost.

Our only current activites are tower tours and fly-with-me weekends.
We are in the planning stages for $100 hamburger runs with potential
members.

We are starting to look into purchasing a smaller plane (152/Warrior?)
to further reduce the costs. Has this approach worked well for other
clubs?

What other suggestions can you come up with?

Jose wrote:

Our club doesn't do equity participation, and that's the reason why I'm
in this club.

It could be optional, in exchange for lower dues. In essence, the extra
dues would cover what it would cost monthly to borrow the equity share.
No matter how it's sliced, the money has to be paid somehow; what I
like about splitting it that way is that the equity share gets returned
on exit. The member actually "owns" a piece of it, should they want to.
It also makes the economics of deciding on another plane simpler.

It seems to me that this equity mechanism - which my club uses too, BTW -
has a disadvantage. What happens when the club wants to "invest" somehow
(better avionics, new plane, whatever)? How does that get funded?

In my club, with a few specific exceptions, it would be an equity increase.
But how far can that go before the equity becomes a significant barrier to
entry (ie. it costs too much for new members to join)?

Invest a little here, invest a little there, and eventually increasing
equity becomes essentially impossible. So does the club cease investing at
that point? Sure, everything is well maintained, but no more aircraft
upgrades (ie. replacing a 1979 182 with a new glass 182)?

A club around here is replacing an older 172 or 182 (I forget which) with a
new glass version. But they're doing it w/o increasing the equity. Those
members that can are loaning the club some money, and the plane gets paid
off out of operating income (ie. some combination tach and montly rates).

So in that case the current members are paying - through their rates - for
an asset that the club will own and from which future members will benefit.
That appears contrary to the idea of equity, and also seems a little unfair
to current members in favor of new members.

However, it also seems to leave more room for investment w/o pricing a club
out of the market.

This is something I've been thinking about for a while, but I've not really
reached any conclusion. Perhaps I'm missing some factor which would
eliminate the "no more investment" issue.

I'd appreciate the thoughts of others on this matter.

- Andrew

Jose wrote:

I look for stuff I can't get at an FBO, and can't afford (time or money
wise) from buying my own plane. Those things are (in no particular
order):

1: well maintained aircraft
2: no minimum rental fees - I can take the plane for a week and don't
have to put umpty-ump hours on it.
3: time billed by the tach, not the hobbs (no "taxi penalty")
4: high performance aircraft - not the warrior/172 set I can get
anywhere.
5: member participation in the affairs of the club and the aircraft.
6: social inclusiveness, which can easily lead to wives and such
getting involved (as pinch hitters, and also with each other socially,
leading to more SOs flying)
7: hangar flying at meetings, safety seminars at meetings, stuff like
that.

That's a start.

Jose

My minimum:

o Aircraft equiped to travel. That means:
o dual vacuum, all redundant electric, or something of that sort
o IFR certified GPS
o Some WX avoidance mechanism
o Speed

o Rules which permit travel
o No daily minimum
o At least somewhat lengthy maximum booking length (ie. a week
or two)

o Pricing which permits frequent flying

o Similarity of aircraft for ease of maintaining currency
in the entire fleet

o Differences in aircraft for fun

o Availability (ie. the member/aircraft ratio, the booking rules, etc.)
which permits frequent flying. For example, my club tweaked the rules
about a year ago, after a study, to make little "poke holes in the sky"
flights easier to book.

o Enough emphasis on safety that I don't fret for other members breaking
my airplanes.

o Well maintained aircraft.

Extra:

o Opportunities for "ownership experiences", such as assisting in
MX issues (ie. owner-assisted annuals etc.). A lot of us consider
club membership training for ownership.

o Safety-related programs (which might be more important if such
weren't easily available around here through other organizations)

o Social programs which include family (which might be more important
if such weren't easily available around here through other
organizations)

Two salient features of the club I'm in that I appreciate:

- no hourly minimum per day. (makes real trips in the aircraft
feasible, and they would not otherwise be!)
- insurance that puts all members as named insured; this is a better
deal than renters insurance.

The rental rates are also some of the lowest on the field, though there
is another field nearby with FBOs with significantly lower (15% or
more) wet rates. However, I'd need insurance there and their 3/hr day
minimums make travel impossible.

The club has a a 152, a several 172s, a 182, 172RG, Warrior, a couple
of Archers, an Arrow, a Bonanza, and a Duchess. I guess that makes it a
medium/large club?

-- dave j

Andy wrote:
What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in
a
flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
would make you want to join a club?

I feel that our prices are the main deterrent. Students (this is a
school club) pay $60/hr for a C172 (dry), alumi pay $70, and all
others
pay $80. This is for a 1998 in good condition. The instructors
usually give club members a reduced price (around $20/hr). The
current
club members will also loan out all training materials to further
reduce the cost.

Our only current activites are tower tours and fly-with-me weekends.
We are in the planning stages for $100 hamburger runs with potential
members.

We are starting to look into purchasing a smaller plane
(152/Warrior?)
to further reduce the costs. Has this approach worked well for other
clubs?

What other suggestions can you come up with?

Andy,

I serve as the Operations Officer in a club in Louisville, Ky named Glendale
Flying Club (www.glendaleflying.com).

We focus on having well equipped planes at a very reasonable rate. Members
really seem to be driven to nice avionics and quality mx. We currently have
70 members with about 20 on the waiting list with 4 planes (2 Warrior, 1
Skylane, 1 Lance, all with Garmin 430's). Also, by allowing members to keep
the planes for extended trips, we have another edge over FBO rentals that
charge daily minimums. Check out our web site if you are interested in more
details, I hope it can help you out.

Recently, our success has allowed us to complete the construction of our own
8000 sqft corporate hanger on Bowman Field (KLOU). This alone has brought
us many members with having the benefit of a warm/cool waiting area and
high-speed flight planning. Not to mention not having to use the
Port-O-Let. There is a photo page on the site as well.

It also helps to have some great volunteers who love aviation to keep
everything running smoothly.

SAC


Check our site
"Andy" wrote in message
oups.com...
What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in a
flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
would make you want to join a club?

I feel that our prices are the main deterrent. Students (this is a
school club) pay $60/hr for a C172 (dry), alumi pay $70, and all others
pay $80. This is for a 1998 in good condition. The instructors
usually give club members a reduced price (around $20/hr). The current
club members will also loan out all training materials to further
reduce the cost.

Our only current activites are tower tours and fly-with-me weekends.
We are in the planning stages for $100 hamburger runs with potential
members.

We are starting to look into purchasing a smaller plane (152/Warrior?)
to further reduce the costs. Has this approach worked well for other
clubs?

What other suggestions can you come up with?

What would make more sense is to have a lower monthly dues for student
pilots, but keep the flying rate the same.


"Morgans" wrote in
:


"Andy" wrote in message
oups.com...
What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in
a flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
would make you want to join a club?

I feel that our prices are the main deterrent. Students (this is a
school club) pay $60/hr for a C172 (dry), alumi pay $70,

I think having a cheaper rate for students would turn me off, if I
were not a student. Seems unfair, for the ones with a ticket, to be
helping to pay for the students.

"Andrew Gideon" wrote

A club around here is replacing an older 172 or 182 (I forget which) with
a
new glass version. But they're doing it w/o increasing the equity.
However, it also seems to leave more room for investment w/o pricing a club
out of the market.

This is something I've been thinking about for a while, but I've not
really
reached any conclusion. Perhaps I'm missing some factor which would
eliminate the "no more investment" issue.

I'd appreciate the thoughts of others on this matter.

- Andrew

Perhaps I am missing something, because the answer seems so "out in the
open."

New members?
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:

Perhaps I am missing something, because the answer seems so "out in the
open."

New members?

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. I guess my confusion on this matter leaked.

Adding members is great if airplanes are being added. But if an airplane is
being [merely] replaced, then adding members risks causing availability
problems.

- Andrew