az soaring assoc

It seems to me that the ASA is just a private little racing club for
those with expensive sailplanes.In my opinion the reason many people
drop out of soaring after getting a license, is that there is no place
to fly other then commercial operations which are more expensive and
are focused on other things.It seems the ASA could pattern itself
after the texas soaring assoc. or tucson's soaring club.

(glen beckham) wrote in message . com...
It seems to me that the ASA is just a private little racing club for
those with expensive sailplanes.In my opinion the reason many people
drop out of soaring after getting a license, is that there is no place
to fly other then commercial operations which are more expensive and
are focused on other things.It seems the ASA could pattern itself
after the texas soaring assoc. or tucson's soaring club.

If you are interested in knowing how ASA evolved and became the
Association (not Club)it is today, may I suggest you purchase a copy
of Collected Classics of Soaring. It is available for only $20 plus
$3 shipping via the ASA web site at http://www.asa-soaring.org/.

ASA has about 80 members only a very small number of which own
"expensive sailplanes"

I have been an active member of ASA for about 18 years, for all but 2
of those years I participated in the ASA contest series in old
sailplanes, initially a Standard Jantar and then an ASW-19b. I placed
in the top 3 many times. The contest series is handicapped and caters
for experienced racers and beginning cross coutry pilots. You could
bring the cheapest glider you like and fly our B class contest and
probably take home a trophy if you are any good. If you don't have a
cheap glider you can fly our G102 very inexpensively if you are
qualified.

We are not private or exclusive. You can come and join us for only
$35 per year.


Andy Durbin (GY)

ASA is an umbrella organization that exists to promote soaring in Arizona,
not really a club as such. It gave up training and owning towplanes and
most gliders years ago. With two of the largest commercial operations in
the USA close to Phoenix, there probably wouldn't be room for a third,
volunteer-run club. (It's also tough to get people to spend a day running
wings in 100-degree heat to earn 30 minutes in a 1-26! ) We currently have a
Grob 102 that is an inexpensive way for new pilots to transition to glass
and cross-country flying. Mostly we promote cross-country flying through
our race series and with training and mentoring meets.

ASA currently has 82 members, about 50 of whom own one (or more) sailplanes.
Of these 50, the majority fly cross country and at least half participate in
the ASA contest series. These 25 or so active pilots probably fly 80% of the
hours and cross-country miles and are the most active folks who run the
association.

Yes, we race a lot and some of our members are passionate about it. We
plead guilty to owning expensive sailplanes (are there any other sort!).
No, we're not private. Anyone can pay his $35 and join ASA, even folks from
out of state.


Mike

ASW 20 WA




"glen beckham" wrote in message
om...
It seems to me that the ASA is just a private little racing club for
those with expensive sailplanes.In my opinion the reason many people
drop out of soaring after getting a license, is that there is no place
to fly other then commercial operations which are more expensive and
are focused on other things.It seems the ASA could pattern itself
after the texas soaring assoc. or tucson's soaring club.

(glen beckham) wrote in message . com...
It seems to me that the ASA is just a private little racing club for
those with expensive sailplanes.In my opinion the reason many people
drop out of soaring after getting a license, is that there is no place
to fly other then commercial operations which are more expensive and
are focused on other things.It seems the ASA could pattern itself
after the texas soaring assoc. or tucson's soaring club.

Sorry, Glen, but you are absolutely wrong. The ASA is an umbrella
association for soaring activities in Arizona. As such, it supports
private owners, racers, and newcomers to the sport. Your comment about
there being no place to fly is interesting - The ASA has a fully XC
(and racing) equipped Grob 102 based at Turf Soaring (Pleasant Valley
Airport) that goes for $20/hour - or $500 for all the flying you can
cram in in a year. And we encourage XC and racing, so unless someone
is waiting in line, there is no time limit during flights. So, join
the ASA for $35 (the annual (!) membership fee), pay your SSA dues,
and fly glass XC for $20 or less - fly 50 hours at $10/hour. Try that
anywhere else! Sure, we do require a glass checkout in a Grob-103 or
ASK-21, but that should probably part of any new glider pilot's
training anyway, especially if they want to progress in the sport.

No, we are not a "club", we do not have instructors, we don't teach.
We don't even have a 2-seater any more because it was never used.
El-Tiro or the Prescott Club are available if someone wants to go the
club route - even from Phoenix El-Tiro isn't a bad drive. We used to
have 1-26s, 1-34s, and Blaniks, but their utilization was so low they
eventually were sold off. So where were all the new glider pilots
then?

So where are all the newly licenced pilots? I wish I knew - and I've
got some ideas, having to do with the pathetic state of glider
training in the US these days - but THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN CLAIM THAT
INEXPENSIVE SOARING IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THE ASA!

As far as your claim that the ASA is just a private little racing club
for those with expensive sailplanes, the truth is that the ASA
supports racing for all types of gliders - we race handicapped, by the
way - and actively encourages new racing pilots to participate, with
tasks tailored to their ability and glider performance.

But again, over the years (I've been racing with the ASA for the last
7 years, starting in the ASA's 1-34, moving to the Grob 102, and now
in my own LS6) the quantity of participation by new racing pilots has
diminished somewhat, and most of the diehard ASA racers have been
bitten by the bug hard and have moved up to the best they could
afford. We are now seeing some new blood in the contest series, and
we average perhaps 15 to 20 gliders during each contest weekend,
ranging from Jantar Std, ASW-19, and LS-4s to Ventus 2s, LS8s, and
ASW-27s. And we task accordingly, and have parties and BBQ's, etc.

And when we aren't racing, we are going XC, and anyone who wants to
come along is welcome, and we are more than willing to show them the
ropes - as we have demonstrated in the crosscountry seminars the ASA
has conducted in the past. And at the end of the day, the clubhouse
is cool and the beer is cold - for members, guests, and anyone
remotely associated with aviation.

So, Glen, come on out and fly with us - we won't bite, I promise. Get
a signoff in a 2-seat glass (at Turf or Estrella, or anywhere you
want), give us a call, and get checked out in AS, our G-102. Then pay
the annual $500 fee and fly 100 hours at $5/hour. The poor thing is
just sitting there begging to be flown!

Then tell us how you really feel!

Seriously, our next general membership meeting is tonight at 6:30 at
the Deer Valley airport restaurant - if you get this in time please
drop by and talk to us.

Kirk
LS6 "66"
ASA Vice President and Safety Officer
(real nospam address)

Kirk:

A strong second to your post. As an out-of-state pilot and guest at an ASA
non-flying event and several of the weekend races, I've seldom been made to
feel more welcome to or received so much unsolicited (and valuable) help
from any other group, soaring or otherwise.

In fact, I've been trying to understand some of the workings of the ASA
weekend series in order to try to clone it for R-12. If that should fail, I
just may have to move to Phoenix.

Raphael Warshaw
1LK

(glen beckham) wrote in message . com...
It seems to me that the ASA is just a private little racing club for
those with expensive sailplanes.In my opinion the reason many people
drop out of soaring after getting a license, is that there is no place
to fly other then commercial operations which are more expensive and
are focused on other things.It seems the ASA could pattern itself
after the texas soaring assoc. or tucson's soaring club.

Glen-
A bit of ASA history. The ASA has never been private or exclusive. I
was a member of ASA during the time of the transition from a full
service club to the beginning of what it is today. I have been away
from Arizona for several years but I doubt the ASA has changed all
that much. I currently live in Nashville and fly in the Tennessee
area. My suggestion would be for you to join, fly the Grob, and bring
in friends that think the way you do. Only by having an influx of new
pilots with varying ideas and a willingness to put in the time &
effort does an organization change and grow stronger. The cost is $35
per year. However, remember 3 things; 1) What really binds a club
together is the friendship & socializing surrounding the flying. 2)
You must be willing to volunteer to do the "dirty work" required. 3)
Don't judge people or pick friends in soaring by what they fly. Talk
to Bob Hurni about the 1-26 Association.



I was a member of ASA for many years in the 60s & 70s. The club
aircraft consisted of tow plane, a 2-22 for training and 5 or 6
privately owned ships. John Ryan – Sisu, Joe Lincoln – 2-32 & 1-23,
Doc Turnbow – an Lk, Bob Roe – an LK, & Charlie Rockwell – 1-19. We
flew out of Deer Valley during the fall, winter & spring, and out of
Prescott during the summer. Training from the instructors was free
and a tow to 2k ft was $5. Dues were reasonable so we generally had
30 – 45 members. Cross country was frowned upon. It was considered
too risky by the powers in the club. The beginning of cross country
for the general membership started when Charlie Rockwell flew his 1-19
from Deer Valley to one of the Luke Aux fields. The distance was
about 25 miles, as I remember it. Cross country and eventually
competition, in the ASA, evolved from that flight. Primarily,
competition evolved because we traveled to different locations within
the state to experience the different conditions. Instead of just
flying around the airport on these safaris, the pilots wanted a goal
to make them stretch their limits. Therefore competition was born in
the ASA.

During this time the club was always looking for ways to foster the
sport of soaring. We gave rides to groups. A lot of the time these
were free. We trained people young and old. I flew the sailplane
while Ruth Perty trained & checked out the Tucson clubs first tow
pilot. I believe it was Mrs Brooks. We helped other clubs get
started. Most didn't make it for whatever reasons – generally
financial. The Tucson club did and has become a great club. I don't
know if anyone still flies in Flagstaff, but we also worked with a
group from there.

The Prescott club has its roots in the ASA. Many of the founding
members and some of the current members were members of ASA and flew
with them.

A couple of things were consistent problems – money and a permanent
place to fly. On occasion, when we were in dire straights, one of the
members would donate a sum of money to bale us out and/or give us
operating capital, or equipment.

The Horvath brothers, and Roy and his partner, decided they wanted to
start soaring sites at Estrella and at Chandler, (later Chandler
became Turf, and now is Turf Soaring). They approached ASA about
their concerns of ASA's free instruction and to find out if ASA would
fly at their locations. Because of the benefits of having a permanent
location(s) and consistently available professional training, an
agreement was reached where ASA would not provide free instruction in
competition. The decision was also made, because of cost and to
support the local commercial operations become successful, to sell the
tow plane and 2-22, and buy a 1-26. Interestingly, the 1-26 was
continuously underutilized. This started ASA's migration towards
being a club of mostly private owners. However, they still own a Grob
102, which is available to approved pilots for local and cross country
soaring. Support equipment includes oxygen, radios, and trailer.

You should read Trish Durbin's book to get more about the ASA's
history.

I cannot believe that you smart guys take this post seriously! This guy is
obviously looking to pick a fight with his opening statement and is another
that wishes for racing pilots to be beholden to those that don't. I suggest
that he join the Tucson club.

Just another glasshole

Hi Glen,

The other posters have done a great job of explaining the nature and
history of the ASA. I have a few comments from a slightly different
perspective since I do not race.

I took up the sport of soaring seven years ago and took my instruction
at Turf. I was absolutely hooked on the sport, and soon yearned to go
beyond the local area. After buying my first ship, a PW5 (hardly
expensive), I was ready to go. The staff at Turf does not engage in xc
training; a close friend of ours in Sedona (former National level
competition pilot)spent time teaching me the basics of xc flying. I
was encouraged to join the ASA and many of the ASA pilots also gave me
help and advice...all you have to do is ask.

On competition days, the pilots that are racing are very focused
people, as well they should be...a lot of information is being
processed regarding the task, weather and all the other stuff which
goes into intense xc competition, and yes these guys/gals are intense
competitors. While they are preparing for or doing a competitive
flight they are focused on the flight and nothing else...catch them
when they land or when they are doing their regular xc flights and
you'll not find a better bunch of people to socialize with. The same
is true in any competitive sport...competitors need to focus on the
event and nothing else. A cursory glance at the cumulative scores for
the ASA 2003 competitions, show that 8 pilots entered 10 or more of
the events, and another 15 pilots flew in 1 or more, but less than 10
events.

There are a number of pilots in the ASA like myself that do not race
at all. XC flying is what I live for in the sport and in the last 2
years I have logged over 21,000 xc miles. Whether you race or not, if
you fly xc, speed and management of the flight is critical if you are
going to fly long flights...there isn't a person I know in the ASA who
isn't willing to help a new member out; the mentoring clinics the ASA
sponsers are focused on racing and it is a good way to learn the
basics and management of xc flying even if you do not intend to race.

Join the club, come on out and introduce yourself, meet the pilots,
ask for help and join in the fun. You will find pilots who have the
same interests you do, whether it is competition, aerobatics, xc
flying or just hanging around the local area. We have great people who
would like to share the skies with you, so c'mon out and join us.

Ted
AZ2

Could one of you ASA guys contact me by email to discuss how you operate the
mentoring clinics? The club I belong to is looking to initiate something
similar and could benefit from understanding a successful model. Thanks in
advance,

brent(underscore)sullivan(at)bmc(dot)com

I think he would have gotten a better response if he suggested that the ASA
fly more PST's. Now THAT would stir up a hornet's nest!


"Kilo Charlie" wrote in message
news:dpacb.1375$hp5.238@fed1read04...
I cannot believe that you smart guys take this post seriously! This guy
is
obviously looking to pick a fight with his opening statement and is
another
that wishes for racing pilots to be beholden to those that don't. I
suggest
that he join the Tucson club.

Just another glasshole