No more "Left Downwind"?

We attended a safety seminar on Tuesday during which the FAA presenter
(who was otherwise outstanding) went over a list of unapproved radio
calls. (Number one being, of course, the despised and now-specifically
prohibited "Any other traffic please advise...")

To our surprise, he claimed that the common phraseology "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering left downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City" is
incorrect. In short, he stated that you should say "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City", omitting
the word "left".

In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic. In high traffic areas, the FAA
thinks that omitting this single word will open the over-crowded unicom
frequencies so that other pilots can squeeze a word in.

Mary and I (and several other pilots) kept quiet during the
presentation, but strongly disagree with him on this topic. IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.

What do you guys think?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 1 Sep 2006 18:50:58 -0700, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

We attended a safety seminar on Tuesday during which the FAA presenter
(who was otherwise outstanding) went over a list of unapproved radio
calls. (Number one being, of course, the despised and now-specifically
prohibited "Any other traffic please advise...")

To our surprise, he claimed that the common phraseology "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering left downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City" is
incorrect. In short, he stated that you should say "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City", omitting
the word "left".

In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic. In high traffic areas, the FAA
thinks that omitting this single word will open the over-crowded unicom
frequencies so that other pilots can squeeze a word in.

Mary and I (and several other pilots) kept quiet during the
presentation, but strongly disagree with him on this topic. IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.

What do you guys think?

He must be a transfer from Military Inellligence.

Don

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

We attended a safety seminar on Tuesday during which the FAA presenter
(who was otherwise outstanding) went over a list of unapproved radio
calls. (Number one being, of course, the despised and now-specifically
prohibited "Any other traffic please advise...")

To our surprise, he claimed that the common phraseology "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering left downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City" is
incorrect. In short, he stated that you should say "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City", omitting
the word "left".

In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic. In high traffic areas, the FAA
thinks that omitting this single word will open the over-crowded unicom
frequencies so that other pilots can squeeze a word in.

Mary and I (and several other pilots) kept quiet during the
presentation, but strongly disagree with him on this topic. IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.

What do you guys think?


I think he's right when he says it's redundant and wrong when he says it's
incorrect.

In article .com,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic. In high traffic areas, the FAA
thinks that omitting this single word will open the over-crowded unicom
frequencies so that other pilots can squeeze a word in.

Mary and I (and several other pilots) kept quiet during the
presentation, but strongly disagree with him on this topic. IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.

What do you guys think?

He's an idiot if he thinks omitting "left" will make any difference.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on.

I agree 100%, and would not have kept my mouth shut. Aircraft may be
low and near the airport (say, overflying) with no intent to land, yet
availing themselves of their freedom to fly in class E and G airspace,
and be listening for calls over the umpty ump airports they are flying
over. The idea that they've memorized the traffic patterns of all these
airports is ludicrous. "All available information" may even be there in
the cockpit, but it is =far= better to hear "Left downwind for 26..."
which instantly creates situational awareness, rather than "Downwind for
26..." (ohmygod, is that the one with right traffic? They said Bumee
airport, I'm over Littlefield County but they have a runway 26, maybe
that's a local name for it?...)

The extra syllable here and there is a way for people to be anal about
radio work. The real problem isn't "with you" or "left" or "looking",
but rather the windbags that take two minutes to say anything because
they haven't a clue.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Probably doesn't like pitot tube or empenage either....:-)

Jay Honeck wrote:
We attended a safety seminar on Tuesday during which the FAA presenter
(who was otherwise outstanding) went over a list of unapproved radio
calls. (Number one being, of course, the despised and now-specifically
prohibited "Any other traffic please advise...")

To our surprise, he claimed that the common phraseology "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering left downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City" is
incorrect. In short, he stated that you should say "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City", omitting
the word "left".

In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic. In high traffic areas, the FAA
thinks that omitting this single word will open the over-crowded unicom
frequencies so that other pilots can squeeze a word in.

Mary and I (and several other pilots) kept quiet during the
presentation, but strongly disagree with him on this topic. IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.

What do you guys think?

I think he's making a dangerous assumption that pilots will always enter
a left downwind at an uncontrolled airport.

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.


I agree completely. I've seen many instances of an aircraft entering the
pattern on the "wrong" side of the runway. One more word on the radio will
clarify the situation completely.

Mike

I think he's making a dangerous assumption that pilots will always enter a left downwind at an uncontrolled airport.

He's making an even more dangerous assumption that transiting pilots
will always know which airports have right patterns.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

well.. I'd like to know what side of the airport the other pilot thinks he
is on.. we are at an uncontrolled field.

If he just says "entering downwind for Rwy 20", I don't know if he means
right downwind for 20R or left downwind for 20L. We have transients
approaching the airport that don't even seem to realize we have 2 parallel
runways..

We even have pilots that call, Left Downwind for 20R, so much for the no
transgression zone between the runways.. we are at an uncontrolled airport.

I hate those guys that call in.. "any traffic please advise", if they'll
listen up 5 minutes they'll get 3 radio calls of other people in the traffic
pattern"... we are at an uncontrolled field.

But then we have those guys that hear.. "xx Glider on left downwind for
20L", so they decide 20L is the active runway and call "left downwind for
20L"... I had a jet do that once.. and I asked "if he'd like an extra 1000ft
of wider pavement to land on.. maybe a right downwind for 20R might be
better"..
we are at an uncontrolled field..

"Every "local" pilot may know the traffic is left or right.."
But how many transients do not (1) check the charting (2) look it up in the
AFD or (3) pay attention to what everyone else is doing.

Heck.. we've even had pilots show up during an airshow when the airport was
NOTAM'd closed..
of course.. after they would not pay attention to "airport is closed,
airshow in progress".. the airboss would shut down the show, let them land
and they were met by very kindly FAA inspectors that were there to monitor
the airshow.

BT


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
We attended a safety seminar on Tuesday during which the FAA presenter
(who was otherwise outstanding) went over a list of unapproved radio
calls. (Number one being, of course, the despised and now-specifically
prohibited "Any other traffic please advise...")

To our surprise, he claimed that the common phraseology "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering left downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City" is
incorrect. In short, he stated that you should say "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City", omitting
the word "left".

In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic. In high traffic areas, the FAA
thinks that omitting this single word will open the over-crowded unicom
frequencies so that other pilots can squeeze a word in.

Mary and I (and several other pilots) kept quiet during the
presentation, but strongly disagree with him on this topic. IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.

What do you guys think?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"