commercial privileges

Can a commercial pilot be hired to rent a plane and fly a journalist on a
local flight for aerial photography, without meeting any operator
requirements? Or does that count as a sightseeing flight, invoking the part
135 drug-testing rules?

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:58:35 GMT, "Gary Drescher"
wrote:

Can a commercial pilot be hired to rent a plane and fly a journalist on a
local flight for aerial photography, without meeting any operator
requirements? Or does that count as a sightseeing flight, invoking the part
135 drug-testing rules?

A commercial pilot being paid to carry passengers cannot provide the
plane (including renting one) without being an operator.

"ArtP" wrote in message
...
A commercial pilot being paid to carry passengers cannot provide the
plane (including renting one) without being an operator.

But if it's a local sightseeing flight, then the pilot is only an operator
for purposes of the part-135 drug-testing rules, not for purposes of any
part-119 requirements, right? (FAR 119.1e2 says that part 119 does not
apply to local sightseeing flights, and 135.1c says only that the
drug-testing sections of part 135 apply to such flights.)

--Gary

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:fMI_b.113144$jk2.502249@attbi_s53...
Can a commercial pilot be hired to rent a plane and fly a journalist on a
local flight for aerial photography, without meeting any operator
requirements? Or does that count as a sightseeing flight, invoking the
part
135 drug-testing rules?



Aerial photography is one of the specified exceptions to the charter rules,
as is flight instruction and such agricultural work as fish spotting or
pipeline patrol where there might be a 'passenger' on board. In each case
the 'passenger' is considered a required crew member.

This gets hashed over about every six months...
Basically, a commercial ticket gives you the right to fly for pay, P E R I O
D...
It does not give you the right to hold out as an air taxi service by
providing aircraft...
denny
"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:fMI_b.113144$jk2.502249@attbi_s53...
Can a commercial pilot be hired to rent a plane and fly a journalist on a
local flight for aerial photography, without meeting any operator
requirements? Or does that count as a sightseeing flight, invoking the
part
135 drug-testing rules?

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:fMI_b.113144$jk2.502249@attbi_s53...
Can a commercial pilot be hired to rent a plane and fly a journalist on
a
local flight for aerial photography, without meeting any operator
requirements? Or does that count as a sightseeing flight, invoking the
part
135 drug-testing rules?



Aerial photography is one of the specified exceptions to the charter
rules,
as is flight instruction and such agricultural work as fish spotting or
pipeline patrol where there might be a 'passenger' on board. In each case
the 'passenger' is considered a required crew member.

I see that it's an exception to part 119 (as per FAR 119.1e4iii), but I
wasn't sure if it still comes under the scope of 135.1a5, which applies even
when part 119 doesn't.

Thanks,
Gary

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...
This gets hashed over about every six months...
Basically, a commercial ticket gives you the right to fly for pay, P E R I
O
D...
It does not give you the right to hold out as an air taxi service by
providing aircraft...

Even in the case of specified part-119 exceptions, such as aerial
photography and local sightseeing?

--Gary

denny
"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:fMI_b.113144$jk2.502249@attbi_s53...
Can a commercial pilot be hired to rent a plane and fly a journalist on
a
local flight for aerial photography, without meeting any operator
requirements? Or does that count as a sightseeing flight, invoking the
part
135 drug-testing rules?

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message news:yjK_b.113497$jk2.502928@attbi_s53...
"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...
This gets hashed over about every six months...
Basically, a commercial ticket gives you the right to fly for pay, P E R I
O
D...
It does not give you the right to hold out as an air taxi service by
providing aircraft...

Even in the case of specified part-119 exceptions, such as aerial
photography and local sightseeing?


No, you're fine if you are just doing local sightseeing. AOPA is
working to ensure this doesn't change. Make sure your insurance is ok
for sightseeing and your class 2 medical is good to go. Its common for
flight schools to sell photography flights.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:yjK_b.113497$jk2.502928@attbi_s53...
"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...
This gets hashed over about every six months...
Basically, a commercial ticket gives you the right to fly for pay, P E
R I
O
D...
It does not give you the right to hold out as an air taxi service by
providing aircraft...

Even in the case of specified part-119 exceptions, such as aerial
photography and local sightseeing?


No, you're fine if you are just doing local sightseeing. AOPA is
working to ensure this doesn't change. Make sure your insurance is ok
for sightseeing and your class 2 medical is good to go. Its common for
flight schools to sell photography flights.

Sure, but flight schools are licensed operators; I'm not. So there seems to
be disagreement here as to whether a non-operator commercial pilot can do
this. And the relevant FARs appear to be gibberish, so I'm still uncertain
as to what the answer is in practice.

For instance, according to FAR 1.1, to be considered a "commercial
operator", you have to be engaged in "air commerce". But according to 1.1,
to be considered "air commerce", your activity has to be interstate,
international, on Federal airways, or involving mail delivery. Otherwise,
no "air commerce", hence no "commercial operator". But part 119 only
applies to "commercial operators" as defined in 1.1. And parts 121 and 135
only apply to those to whom part 119 applies--except for local sightseeing
flights, which part 135 addresses even when part 119 doesn't apply. So as
long as you stay in one state, avoid Federal airways, don't deliver mail,
and don't do local sightseeing flights (but long-range sightseeing is ok!),
nothing in 119, 121, or 135 is applicable. That can't be what the FAA
meant, but it's what they've written.

--Gary

Why don't you call the local FSDO and ask them? There seems to be a lot of
variation between them so you want to know what the one for your area
thinks.


"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:_WQ_b.399631$na.765403@attbi_s04...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:yjK_b.113497$jk2.502928@attbi_s53...
"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...
This gets hashed over about every six months...
Basically, a commercial ticket gives you the right to fly for pay, P
E
R I
O
D...
It does not give you the right to hold out as an air taxi service by
providing aircraft...

Even in the case of specified part-119 exceptions, such as aerial
photography and local sightseeing?


No, you're fine if you are just doing local sightseeing. AOPA is
working to ensure this doesn't change. Make sure your insurance is ok
for sightseeing and your class 2 medical is good to go. Its common for
flight schools to sell photography flights.

Sure, but flight schools are licensed operators; I'm not. So there seems
to
be disagreement here as to whether a non-operator commercial pilot can do
this. And the relevant FARs appear to be gibberish, so I'm still
uncertain
as to what the answer is in practice.

For instance, according to FAR 1.1, to be considered a "commercial
operator", you have to be engaged in "air commerce". But according to
1.1,
to be considered "air commerce", your activity has to be interstate,
international, on Federal airways, or involving mail delivery. Otherwise,
no "air commerce", hence no "commercial operator". But part 119 only
applies to "commercial operators" as defined in 1.1. And parts 121 and
135
only apply to those to whom part 119 applies--except for local sightseeing
flights, which part 135 addresses even when part 119 doesn't apply. So as
long as you stay in one state, avoid Federal airways, don't deliver mail,
and don't do local sightseeing flights (but long-range sightseeing is
ok!),
nothing in 119, 121, or 135 is applicable. That can't be what the FAA
meant, but it's what they've written.

--Gary