Swedish underground hangars, photos

Urban Fredriksson
Suitable targets included embarkation ports, massed troop concentrations,
depots and bridges. To stop and break up an expected 8 or 9 Soviet
divisions marching through Finland, 50 bombs were calculated to be
necessary.

Depending on where on Swedish territory the weapons were to be used,
between 900 and 35 000 civilian casualities were estimated for each
explosion.

On _Swedish_ territory? A reason why Finland wasn't entirely
happy g with the Swedish nuclear weapon plans was that at
it was seen that the weapons would have been targeted for
Finnish territory. Perhaps somewhat like the conserns in
West Germany about the French tac nukes located in France
which didn't have the range to overfly West Germany.

I have difficulty in understanding what the Swedish nuclear
doctrine would have looked liked. Surely the Soviets would
have responded going nuclear too? Sweden with a limited
nuber of tac nukes wouldn't have had that much of a
deterrance (in cold war terms) against an escalation to
a strategic exchange?

Moreover 50 tac nukes needed to stop a mere 8 or 9 Soviet
divisions? Huh? Heck, the Finnish army would have had them
for breakfst, using conventional weapons, just like it did a
few decades earlier g. Uhm, well...

Btw, about the A 36 thread, 'A' stands for attack, and
it's obviously an attack plane rather than a bomber.

lid (Goran Larsson) wrote in message ...
In article ,
robert arndt wrote:

BTW, what does "Surte" mean? A guy from Sweden sent me an e-mail with
that name for the Swedish bomb...

Surte is a small place, about 14 km north of Gothenburg, with about 5500
inhabitants.


I've been told by a few people it actually is a fire demon/god from
Norse mythology...

Rob

In article ,
robert arndt wrote:

I've been told by a few people it actually is a fire demon/god from
Norse mythology...

Yes. Surte (Saron) is the ruler of Muspelheim (Mordor), but it is much
more fun to name an A-bomb after a small place that used to be full of
flaming hot furnaces used in glass production. :-/

--
Göran Larsson http://www.mitt-eget.com/

lid (Goran Larsson) wrote in message ...
In article ,
robert arndt wrote:

I've been told by a few people it actually is a fire demon/god from
Norse mythology...

Yes. Surte (Saron) is the ruler of Muspelheim (Mordor), but it is much
more fun to name an A-bomb after a small place that used to be full of
flaming hot furnaces used in glass production. :-/

Thanks for the info. I want to have a custom made Surte bomb along
with the A36 model but can't find any information on the Swedish
design (assuming they had at least an initial concept of the 600-800
kg weapon). Supposedly, Bofors would have constructed it (or at least
made vital components of it).
Any suggestions where to look to find the design? If not, I will just
tell the model maker to base it on an early British nuclear free fall
bomb.
BTW, is the furnace story where they actually came up with the name?
Swedish fighters tend to all have mythological names: Drakon (Dragon),
Viggen (Thunderbolt), and Gripen (Griffin). I suppose Surte (Fire
Demon) is appropriate for a Swedish nuke but I wonder what name the
A36 would have recieved itself. Any ideas??? If I hear a good
suggestion I might name it myself on the display stand.

Rob

In article ,
robert arndt wrote:

Swedish fighters tend to all have mythological names: Drakon (Dragon),
Viggen (Thunderbolt), and Gripen (Griffin).

OK, lances occur in mythology, but has there ever been a
hero who used a flying barrel?

Also note that drake = kite (take a look at the planform
and keep in mind this wasn't an official name in the time
frame you're thinking of).

I suppose Surte (Fire
Demon)

I think you have to make up your mind if it's Surt or
Surte.

is appropriate for a Swedish nuke but I wonder what name the
A36 would have recieved itself.

"Flygplan typ 36".
--
Urban Fredriksson http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
Good/bad and right/wrong are orthogonal.

On 4 Jul 2003 09:11:57 +0200, (Urban Fredriksson) wrote:

In article ,
robert arndt wrote:

Swedish fighters tend to all have mythological names: Drakon (Dragon),
Viggen (Thunderbolt), and Gripen (Griffin).

OK, lances occur in mythology, but has there ever been a
hero who used a flying barrel?

I did hear of one or two in the Niagara Falls area ;-)


greg


--
$ReplyAddress =~ s#\@.*$##; # Delete everything after the '@'
Alley Gator. With those hypnotic big green eyes
Alley Gator. She'll make you 'fraid 'em
She'll chew you up, ain't no lie

In article ,
robert arndt wrote:

BTW, is the furnace story where they actually came up with the name?

I have no idea. I didn't even know the bomb had been given a name and
the connection with the furnaces in Surte was just my first thought.

--
Göran Larsson http://www.mitt-eget.com/

(Urban Fredriksson) wrote in message ...
In article ,
robert arndt wrote:

Swedish fighters tend to all have mythological names: Drakon (Dragon),
Viggen (Thunderbolt), and Gripen (Griffin).

OK, lances occur in mythology, but has there ever been a
hero who used a flying barrel?

I think everyone will make an exception here noting that the Tunnan
was actually one of the most accurate aircraft descriptions ever!

Also note that drake = kite (take a look at the planform
and keep in mind this wasn't an official name in the time
frame you're thinking of).

I suppose Surte (Fire
Demon)

I think you have to make up your mind if it's Surt or
Surte.

This I don't understand... unless the spelling in Swedish varies. In
old Norse mythology it is always Surte. Translation: "flame God" or
"flame Demon".

is appropriate for a Swedish nuke but I wonder what name the
A36 would have recieved itself.

"Flygplan typ 36".

Besides the obvious. A few enthusiasts sent in some recommendations
with the names Valkyrie and Berserker showing up more than once.
Valkyrie (Choosers of the Slain) sounds great but was taken by the
latter XB-70 bomber. Berserker seems out of place. Berserkers, aka
frenzied warriors, made their presence known to the enemy rather
loudly BEFORE their attack. The A36 approach would have been the
opposite.

Rob

In article ,
robert arndt wrote:

"Flygplan typ 36".

Besides the obvious.

I'm totally serious. The air force never planned on giving
the J 35 a name. And there was a possibility the 37 could
have been called "Falken" or something, so there's no
reason to assume any kind of theme to the name(s) either, then.
SK 60 still has no name.
--
Urban Fredriksson http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
A king and an elephant were sitting in a bathtub. The king said, "pass
the soap" and the elephant said, "No soap, radio!"

M *@*.* wrote:

Moreover 50 tac nukes needed to stop a mere 8 or 9 Soviet
divisions? Huh? Heck, the Finnish army would have had them
for breakfst, using conventional weapons, just like it did a
few decades earlier g. Uhm, well...

From late 40's to the late 60's it would have been other way
around. Army had not had practically any new equipment
since the end of the war, and for the Air Force and Navy was
about as bad.

For behalf of the Swedes, tactical nukes were the
buzzword of the 50's and early 60's, much like "information warfare"
or "transformation of warfare " are today. It was expected
that they would be used from day one onwards. Every country,
even Finland, hurrily modified their fighting doctrines and
organizations in order to meet this new threat. Those small
countries which had resources, like Sweden and Switzerland,
were trying to develop their own weapons.

This reorganization of armed forces was probably taken into
extreme by Americans in the early 60's, and later by the
French in late 60's. Aviation content of this post is that
most of the strike aircraft of period were principally meant
for nuclear weapons delivery.

Motto:
"There is no such thing as mystical radiation sickness"
(quoted from memory) "Atomic Weapons in Land Combat" (1952)


terveisin,
jukka raustia


--
"Päinvastoin, olisi nähtävä, että Suomen turvallisuus _kaikissa tilanteissa_
nojautuu olennaisesti siihen, että tarpeen vaatiessa Suomi voi tukeutua
Neuvostoliiton apuun koskemattomuutensa säilyttämiseksi."
-s. 57, Kaksiteräinen miekka - 70-luvun puolustuspolitiikkaa"
Jaakko Blomberg, Pentti Joenniemi, Helsinki 1971.