ADF Required

When an approach specifies ADF REQUIRED (as in Rochester, NY KROC ILS RWY 4
or VOR RWY 4) is there any legal way to fly the approach without an ADF?
It appears to me that the only reason for the ADF requirement is for the
missed approach. Can the approach be flown leagally by requesting alternate
missed approach instructions that don't require and ADF?

Ted Timmons wrote:
When an approach specifies ADF REQUIRED (as in Rochester, NY KROC ILS RWY 4
or VOR RWY 4) is there any legal way to fly the approach without an ADF?
It appears to me that the only reason for the ADF requirement is for the
missed approach. Can the approach be flown leagally by requesting alternate
missed approach instructions that don't require and ADF?

Is there an overlay GPS approach to that runway?

Ted Timmons wrote:

Can the approach be flown leagally by requesting alternate
missed approach instructions that don't require and ADF?

I fly out of Syracuse, NY, which has an ADF-required ILS approach.
During the oral, the DE for my instrument checkride asked me if I could
legally fly this approach using a C172 with no ADF. I answered "yes" if
the aircraft is equipped with an IFR-certified GPS. That answer was
wrong.

He told me what you stated above. If you ask ATC for alternate missed
approach instructions, you can "legally" fly the approach without an
ADF.

--
Peter







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Ted Timmons wrote:
When an approach specifies ADF REQUIRED (as in Rochester, NY KROC ILS RWY 4
or VOR RWY 4) is there any legal way to fly the approach without an ADF?
It appears to me that the only reason for the ADF requirement is for the
missed approach. Can the approach be flown leagally by requesting alternate
missed approach instructions that don't require and ADF?

No reason you can't use a GPS for this approach.

Peter R. wrote:

Ted Timmons wrote:


Can the approach be flown leagally by requesting alternate
missed approach instructions that don't require and ADF?


I fly out of Syracuse, NY, which has an ADF-required ILS approach.
During the oral, the DE for my instrument checkride asked me if I could
legally fly this approach using a C172 with no ADF. I answered "yes" if
the aircraft is equipped with an IFR-certified GPS. That answer was
wrong.

He told me what you stated above. If you ask ATC for alternate missed
approach instructions, you can "legally" fly the approach without an
ADF.

I looked at both ILS's for SYR. No reson you can't use the GPS to hold
at KIRKI when you go missed.

In article ,
Peter R. wrote:

I fly out of Syracuse, NY, which has an ADF-required ILS approach.
During the oral, the DE for my instrument checkride asked me if I could
legally fly this approach using a C172 with no ADF. I answered "yes" if
the aircraft is equipped with an IFR-certified GPS. That answer was
wrong.

How was your answer wrong?

Newps wrote:

I looked at both ILS's for SYR. No reson you can't use the GPS to hold
at KIRKI when you go missed.

Yes, you are right and I am wrong. I just found the reference in the
AIM that states that both DME and ADF can be substituted with the GPS.

Now that I think of it, I recall the chief CFI at my school mentioned he
was going to talk to the DE about GPS substitution, as it appeared the
DE did not have his facts entirely correct. Then again, this was about
a year ago.

--
Peter







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I think the clarification from the FAA is recent about DME and ADF
substitution. However, note that if this is an ALTERNATE airport, you
cannot substitute.

AOPA has the link, I can't find it right now.


"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Newps wrote:

I looked at both ILS's for SYR. No reson you can't use the GPS to hold
at KIRKI when you go missed.

Yes, you are right and I am wrong. I just found the reference in the
AIM that states that both DME and ADF can be substituted with the GPS.

Now that I think of it, I recall the chief CFI at my school mentioned he
was going to talk to the DE about GPS substitution, as it appeared the
DE did not have his facts entirely correct. Then again, this was about
a year ago.

--
Peter







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News==----
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Newsgroups
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I think the clarification from the FAA is recent about DME and ADF
substitution. However, note that if this is an ALTERNATE airport, you
cannot substitute.


More precisely, the substitution cannot be considered when choosing it as an
alternate. No ADF, can't use it as an alternate. Hoever, once in the air,
should you actually require an alternate airport, you are not required to use
the one in the flight plan, and you may use one notated ADF required by
substituting GPS just as if it were your intended airport and approach.

Requirements for filing differ from those for using.

Jose

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"Ted Timmons" wrote in message . ..
When an approach specifies ADF REQUIRED (as in Rochester, NY KROC ILS RWY 4
or VOR RWY 4) is there any legal way to fly the approach without an ADF?
It appears to me that the only reason for the ADF requirement is for the
missed approach. Can the approach be flown leagally by requesting alternate
missed approach instructions that don't require and ADF?

I am not sure how you decided that the ADF is required only for the
missed approach. The AVN NDB serves as the IAF and the holding fix. It
is required in order to fly the feeder route from FAULT intersection.
AVN is also the fix from which the MSA and the 10-NM approach area are
determined. Unless I am looking at the wrong approach chart, it seems
to me that you need the ADF in order to fly this approach.