ethanol question

Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it could
contain up to 10% ethanol.

My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on mogas.

Quick research indicates 3 concerns:
1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters.
2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience "phase
separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment bowls.
3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing leaks/breakages.


Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3, but
unsure on overloading a sediment bowl....

I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns.

Thanks, Dick

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:46:58 GMT, "Dick" wrote:

Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it could
contain up to 10% ethanol.

My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on mogas.

Quick research indicates 3 concerns:
1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters.
2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience "phase
separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment bowls.
3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing leaks/breakages.


Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3, but
unsure on overloading a sediment bowl....

I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns.

Thanks, Dick


for the reasons you mention I run my O-200 on 100/130 avgas with
REM38E plugs.

you have more worries than you've identified.

bacterial contamination that is not often checked for in mogas.
(surface of water stuff)

UV deterioration of the fuel leading to waxy deposits settling out.

a lot of your carby seals are actually leather. add that to your list.

just bye the bye when I pulled apart a marvel schebler carby I was
using, between the inlet filter and the needle seat was a lot of
friable black gunk which is supposedly from mogas that was used
previously. it was causing fuel dribbles after shutdown.

"Dick" wrote in message
news:S084k.10872$kW2.67@trnddc01...
Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it could
contain up to 10% ethanol.

My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on mogas.

Quick research indicates 3 concerns:
1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters.
2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience "phase
separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment bowls.
3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing
leaks/breakages.


Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3, but
unsure on overloading a sediment bowl....

I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns.

Thanks, Dick

I am not flying at the present time, and I am really annoyed by the entire
"gasohol" farce.

(Brief Rant)
E-10 is a more expensive product, contains as little as 96 percent of the
energy, is generally regarded as less stable, and is the result of purely
political decisions of questionable merit!
(End of Brief Rant)

OTOH, since it is an experimental and you have been using MoGas all along,
you are more likely to know what materials are in the fuel system--if it was
mine and the problem was the tanks, I would switch immediately to AvGas and
avoid idling with rich mixture during warmup and taxiing.

Some assistance regarding the hoses, seals, and gakets may be as close as:
1) The auto parts store--those guys have been on the "front lines" a lot
longer, or
2) The nearest hose and o-ring suppliers for aircraft--who probably have
product data sheets for what the sell.

This is the first that I remember hearing of "phase separation" which may
just mean that I forgot. However, there is at least one obvious way to
test. Get something that can produce a good suction--a "feeding syringe"
from the nearest feed store might be a good choice. Then, put some E-10
gasohol in a clear glass soda bottle, connect the bottle to the feed syringe
with a sturdy hose (or something similar), pull back on the plunger, and see
what happens. That should give you a way to take your fuel sample from
about sea level to about 18000 feet in a hurry. Obviously, you would need
to add some instruments and test at various temperatures to learn what might
happen over a wide range of temperatures and altitudes; but a lot of us
bloviate a lot on usenet and, with some very simple testing, you should be
able to get an idea of whether the whole discussion really applies to your
application.

Peter

P.S.: A home brew test for the actual presence of ethanol was discussed
on this forum a few months ago.

"Dick" ...

THis subject has been covered north, south, east, west, up, down, port, and
starboard in these newsgroups over the last two years. Please do your
research and investigation into prior threads before starting a new one.
Most folks who have posted good stuff just shine on somebody that isn't
willing to do the work before asking a very old question.

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it."
--Aristotle


"Dick" wrote in message
news:S084k.10872$kW2.67@trnddc01...
Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it could
contain up to 10% ethanol.

My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on mogas.

Quick research indicates 3 concerns:
1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters.
2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience "phase
separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment bowls.
3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing
leaks/breakages.


Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3, but
unsure on overloading a sediment bowl....

I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns.

Thanks, Dick

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
m...
"Dick" ...

THis subject has been covered north, south, east, west, up, down, port,
and starboard in these newsgroups over the last two years. Please do your
research and investigation into prior threads before starting a new one.
Most folks who have posted good stuff just shine on somebody that isn't
willing to do the work before asking a very old question.


What's the harm. It's not like the daily message count is difficult to
manage.

You never can tell when there might be some new thinking or information, and
you won't find that in the archives.

Jim,
What's the problem?? I did do some net research but couldn't get any
download this morning from the EAA site for whatever reason and apparently
made the mistake to ask here what others are doing.

Sorry,
Dick Ripper
Lakeland, Florida

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
m...
"Dick" ...

THis subject has been covered north, south, east, west, up, down, port,
and starboard in these newsgroups over the last two years. Please do your
research and investigation into prior threads before starting a new one.
Most folks who have posted good stuff just shine on somebody that isn't
willing to do the work before asking a very old question.

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it."
--Aristotle


"Dick" wrote in message
news:S084k.10872$kW2.67@trnddc01...
Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it could
contain up to 10% ethanol.

My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on mogas.

Quick research indicates 3 concerns:
1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters.
2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience "phase
separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment
bowls.
3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing
leaks/breakages.


Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3, but
unsure on overloading a sediment bowl....

I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns.

Thanks, Dick

"Dick" wrote in message
news:Hre4k.2$2_.1@trnddc01...
| Jim,
| What's the problem?? I did do some net research but couldn't get any
| download this morning from the EAA site for whatever reason and
apparently
| made the mistake to ask here what others are doing.
|
| Sorry,
| Dick Ripper
| Lakeland, Florida
|
| "RST Engineering" wrote in message
| m...
| "Dick" ...
|
| THis subject has been covered north, south, east, west, up, down,
port,
| and starboard in these newsgroups over the last two years. Please
do your
| research and investigation into prior threads before starting a new
one.
| Most folks who have posted good stuff just shine on somebody that
isn't
| willing to do the work before asking a very old question.
|
| Jim
|
| --
| "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a
thought
| without accepting it."
| --Aristotle
|
|
| "Dick" wrote in message
| news:S084k.10872$kW2.67@trnddc01...
| Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it
could
| contain up to 10% ethanol.
|
| My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on
mogas.
|
| Quick research indicates 3 concerns:
| 1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters.
| 2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience
"phase
| separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment
| bowls.
| 3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing
| leaks/breakages.
|
|
| Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3,
but
| unsure on overloading a sediment bowl....
|
| I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns.
|
| Thanks, Dick
|
|
|

Here is an STC for Ethanol 100% for a C-152.
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...B?OpenDocument
Forum comments on it.
http://www.pacificnorthwestflying.co...=1689.msg13664

Greg Poe using E85 in his aerobatic plane.
http://ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=4274

--
Anyolmouse




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"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
...
"Dick" wrote in message
...

This is the first that I remember hearing of "phase separation" which may
just mean that I forgot. However, there is at least one obvious way to
...

Phase seperation is when you add water to the gas / ethanol mix and the
ethanol / water seperates out. The ammount of water required to do this
depends on the ethanol concentration and the temperature - so things might
be OK on the ground where it's warm...

The water / ethanol mix will be too "lean" for you engine and the gasoline
left behind will have a lower octane than the gasoline / ethanol blend that
may or may not be adequate for your needs.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Dick" wrote in message news:S084k.10872$kW2.67@trnddc01...
Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it could
contain up to 10% ethanol.

My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on mogas.

Quick research indicates 3 concerns:
1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters.
2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience "phase
separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment bowls.
3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing leaks/breakages.


Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3, but
unsure on overloading a sediment bowl....

I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns.

Thanks, Dick



Running 100LL...sad but true.

"RST Engineering" wrote

Most folks who have posted good stuff " just shine on somebody"
that isn't willing

"just shine on somebody" ???

I've never heard that expression before. Must be a Californie-i-a" type of
thing! g
--
Jim in NC