TR182 cost of ownership - maintenance, etc.

I've decided that a TR182 (turbo, retract) would be a better choice
for me, economically than a T210. It was a tough decision, because I
love 210s, but right now it's the right choice.

I would appreciate any input you have on the TR182. Yearly costs,
major mechanical work, fuel burn and even the performance numbers you
are getting.

My purchase budget is $160,000, cash, and it should include
everything. I'm talking purchase, taxes, annual/prepurchase and a
slush fund for fixing any discrepancies. I hope that will cover any
needed avionics upgrades, as well.

My operating budget is currently $30,000/yr.

Does it look like I can afford this plane?

John Szpara
Private pilot
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

Will you adopt me?


"john szpara" wrote in message
...
I've decided that a TR182 (turbo, retract) would be a better choice
for me, economically than a T210. It was a tough decision, because I
love 210s, but right now it's the right choice.

I would appreciate any input you have on the TR182. Yearly costs,
major mechanical work, fuel burn and even the performance numbers you
are getting.

My purchase budget is $160,000, cash, and it should include
everything. I'm talking purchase, taxes, annual/prepurchase and a
slush fund for fixing any discrepancies. I hope that will cover any
needed avionics upgrades, as well.

My operating budget is currently $30,000/yr.

Does it look like I can afford this plane?

John Szpara
Private pilot
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

"john szpara" wrote in message
...
I've decided that a TR182 (turbo, retract) would be a better choice
for me, economically than a T210. It was a tough decision, because I
love 210s, but right now it's the right choice.

I had a T210 and most of the maintenance was for the landing gear (pretty
much identical to the 182RG). Now, mine was "newer" when I bought it (1983
model bought in Nov. 1999), but it was a lemon, even given he prepurchase
inspection. I sold it after just seven months.


I would appreciate any input you have on the TR182. Yearly costs,
major mechanical work, fuel burn and even the performance numbers you
are getting.

See remarks about landing gear.

Any other models you considered?


My purchase budget is $160,000, cash, and it should include
everything. I'm talking purchase, taxes, annual/prepurchase and a
slush fund for fixing any discrepancies. I hope that will cover any
needed avionics upgrades, as well.

That should buy just about any 182RG out there with some reserve (figure
$5K-7K).

My operating budget is currently $30,000/yr.

For how many hours? Average business usage is about 160 hours/year and
around $120-140/hour. How does your expected use fit with that?


Does it look like I can afford this plane?

Most definitely!

See remarks about landing gear.

I thought the gear was simpler than the T210? If not, I guess I'll
just have to suck it up, and stay on top of maintenance.


Any other models you considered?

Sure, I've thought about all sorts of a/c. T210, Mooney 231, and some
twins. I have a bunch of time in 182s, so the transition should be
minimal (from n/a, fixed gear. I've flown turbos before).



My purchase budget is $160,000, cash, and it should include
everything. I'm talking purchase, taxes, annual/prepurchase and a
slush fund for fixing any discrepancies. I hope that will cover any
needed avionics upgrades, as well.

That should buy just about any 182RG out there with some reserve (figure
$5K-7K).

My operating budget is currently $30,000/yr.

For how many hours? Average business usage is about 160 hours/year and
around $120-140/hour. How does your expected use fit with that?

Sorry, forgot to mention that. I'd say 100-150 hours, some business,
some pleasure. The total will depend on business use. I like to fly at
least once a week, to stay current and sharp, and put on 1-2 hours a
week, minimum, with some longer trips now and then.

John Szpara
Private pilot
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

If you don't like the gear issues, just get a 206.

"john szpara" wrote in message
...
[...]
My purchase budget is $160,000, cash, and it should include
everything. I'm talking purchase, taxes, annual/prepurchase and a
slush fund for fixing any discrepancies. I hope that will cover any
needed avionics upgrades, as well.

My operating budget is currently $30,000/yr.

Does that budget include fuel and oil?

Where do you plan to keep the airplane, and what does a hangar there cost?
Or tie-down, if you plan to go that route?

All that said, it seems to me that $30K/year is plenty for any airplane in
that class, including the TR182 you're talking about. I have a seaplane
that is otherwise similar (turbocharged, retractable landing gear) and my
annual costs aren't even close to that (maybe half? I try not to write the
final total down ), including a pretty steep insurance bill.

The biggest thing to watch out for is that the maintenance the first year,
and maybe the first three years, is going to be above average, as you work
the kinks out of the airplane. You can never really predict the costs, but
as a very rough back-of-the-envelope calculation, you can take the base cost
of an annual inspection (probably around $1000-2000, depending on the
mechanic and locale), double that to get the total cost of an annual
(including whatever repairs may be required), and figure you'll spend about
the same on incidental maintenance during the rest of the year.

That winds up being between $4000 to $8000 per year on maintenance, total.
As a rough guess, I'd say you're more likely to tend toward to the lower of
those two numbers, but it depends on a lot of unpredictable things, and of
course a more conservative estimate is better for planning purposes. Also,
the higher number is probably a more appropriate guess for the first year or
so of ownership.

Does it look like I can afford this plane?

Frankly, I think with your budget you could afford a T210 if you wanted to.
But certainly you should be able to obtain and keep a TR182, and a pretty
nice one at that.

BTW, I don't recall the official designation off the top of my head, but
I've always used the term "182RG" to describe a retractable gear Cessna 182,
and would normally call a turbocharged version a T182RG. I admit, it gets
confusing if you want to include the model letter as well, but just a
heads-up that you may not always see it called a "TR182".

Pete

My operating budget is currently $30,000/yr.

Does that budget include fuel and oil?

Yes.

Where do you plan to keep the airplane, and what does a hangar there cost?
Or tie-down, if you plan to go that route?

I'll be based in Hollister - 3O7. The last time I checked, there
weren't any hangars available. I'll get a tiedown, and wait for a
hangar. I need to contact them and get the fees.

Does it look like I can afford this plane?

Frankly, I think with your budget you could afford a T210 if you wanted to.
But certainly you should be able to obtain and keep a TR182, and a pretty
nice one at that.

I thought I could, but was told that T210s can really bite you with
unexpected, expensive maintenance.

BTW, I don't recall the official designation off the top of my head, but
I've always used the term "182RG" to describe a retractable gear Cessna 182,
and would normally call a turbocharged version a T182RG. I admit, it gets
confusing if you want to include the model letter as well, but just a
heads-up that you may not always see it called a "TR182".

Ok. I don't know where I picked that up.

Thanks for the info.

John Szpara
Private pilot
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

"john szpara" wrote in message
...
Does that budget include fuel and oil?

Yes.

Well, there's one area the 210 would cost more, being a thirstier airplane.
Other than that...

[...]
I thought I could, but was told that T210s can really bite you with
unexpected, expensive maintenance.

I realize that I don't know the subtle differences between the 182 and the
210. But it's not clear to me how they would be dramatically different,
given that they are equipped with fundamentally the same kinds of things.

Having owned just the one plane, I can't speak from personal experience, but
I have had several people tell me that broadly speaking, the cost of
maintenance is directly related to the various features of the airplane.
Different airplanes have different quirks of course, and some may have
particular maintenance issues not found elsewhere. But the difference
between a retractable gear and fixed gear, or between normally-aspirated and
turbocharged, or between one engine or two, is much more significant when it
comes to maintenance costs.

Basically, the T182RG can really bite you with unexpected, expensive
maintenance as well. Unless the 210 has something extremely unusual (like
the wing spar issue with the larger Cessna twins), I would have thought
maintenance costs would be similar to the 182.

Did the person (or people) who told you that give you specific examples of
what a 210 might need with respect to maintenance that wouldn't be an issue
on a 182? Now you've got me curious.

Pete

We have run both the R182 and the TR182, and found that the
turbo and its systems gave some trouble. The exhaust piping runs hotter
and springs more leaks, the wastegate linkage can be troublesome, and
the carb is really hard to get at, as is the dual magneto. Many
scratches on the arms and hands and a temptation to use inappropriate
language.
The gear needs watching. The pivot has to be kept properly
adjusted or the airplane's weight ends up on the wrong place on the
trunnion and cracks it, letting out the brake fluid which runs through
a channel drilled in it. The nosegear has a locking pin that's subject
to cracking and falling out.
That's all from my standpoint as a mechanic. If you have $30K
to spend, someone else will fuss with those problems. From my other
position as a pilot, the turbo makes high-altitude cruising possible,
if you have oxygen, and this airplane is a sweetheart to fly, with no
bad habits other than a wicked float if you don't get intelligent about
approach speeds versus weight, and that float usually means a
faster-than-normal touchdown and flat-spotted tires because the tires
are small and the brakes are powerful. The airplane's Vso is 37 knots,
so you have to land it when it's ready to land. Not before. The
15x6.00-6 tires cost a lot more than the ordinary 6.00-6's.

Dan

wrote in message
ups.com...
We have run both the R182 and the TR182, and found that the
turbo and its systems gave some trouble. The exhaust piping runs hotter
and springs more leaks, the wastegate linkage can be troublesome,

Yup, that matches my experience with my turbocharger. But wouldn't it be
the same issue whether we're talking about a TR182 or a T210?

and
the carb is really hard to get at, as is the dual magneto.

No carb on my airplane, but it has the dual magneto. Tucked under the turbo
discharge of course. Mechanics just *love* working on that thing.

Many
scratches on the arms and hands and a temptation to use inappropriate
language.

Like I said.

The gear needs watching. The pivot has to be kept properly
adjusted or the airplane's weight ends up on the wrong place on the
trunnion and cracks it, letting out the brake fluid which runs through
a channel drilled in it. The nosegear has a locking pin that's subject
to cracking and falling out.

Isn't the retractable gear on the 182 similar to the gear on the 210? That
was my point, that yes these problems exist, but I think that going with a
TR182 doesn't reduce one's exposure, compared to a T210.

That's all from my standpoint as a mechanic. If you have $30K
to spend, someone else will fuss with those problems. From my other
position as a pilot, the turbo makes high-altitude cruising possible,
if you have oxygen,

After having flown my turbocharged airplane for almost 12 years now, I would
not own a normally-aspirated airplane except as a local-hop toy. The turbo
is just WAY too useful, whether for high-altitude airports or the big boost
in cruise speed at altitude.

and this airplane is a sweetheart to fly, with no
bad habits other than a wicked float if you don't get intelligent about
approach speeds versus weight,

Heh...never occurred to me to complain about float for any Cessna. But yes,
I suppose if you land with way too much speed, you'll spend your sweet time
slowing down. Heck, in my early years of flying, I once managed to use up
nearly all of an 1800' runway in a C172. No, there was no 50' obstacle. So
anything's possible.

But then that's an issue with any airplane. Too-high approach and landing
speeds result in much-longer-than-necessary landing distances. I wouldn't
call that a "bad habit" on the part of the 182. If anything, I'd say the
182's short-field capability is one good selling point over the 210 (which
is no runway hog itself).

Pete