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#11
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The aircarft could opperate at 470mph and at altitudes of nearly
45,000 ft and had a pressursied cabin. It was designed to take on B29s. Hard to believe. The RLM didn't field aircraft for non-existant threats; quite the opposite, they rarely reacted in a timely fashion to actual, present threats. The Ta 152 series was not intended specifically to counter the B-29 - the great speed of the Tank fighter was intended to be used against Mustangs and Mosquitos, and other fast targets that could not adequately be countered by more conventional fighters, such as the tired old "Me". The Ta would have made a fine bomber destroyer, but its not likely it was designed and fielded with the B-29 in mind. The B29 wasn't a non existant threat since it was in use against Japan. Well, then the RLM would have needed to send a Geschwader or two to Hokkaido in order to face that threat. By the time reports of B-29s filtered back to Germany, Tank had been working on improving the FW 190 for years. I've never seen anything from a German wartime source that mentions a B-29, and nothing in the Tank file that suggests he needed it to provide motivation for creating additional improvements to his signature prop fighter. The B29 was almost impune against interception by most japanese aircaft types but it would have fared less well against the Luftwaffe, nevertheless it still would have been much more difficult to intercept becuase of its speed. I've never met a LW pilot, or read a report by a wartime German source that knew anything about the B-29 until long after the war. The "boogie man" to the Germans, from the bordfunkers in the 110s, the train engineers, all the way up to Göring, Goebbels, and DF all point to the Mosquito. I have minutes to meetings of the Jägerstab from 1945 and the men present are grim, determined, and not interested in addressing threats faced by the Asian friends - they want to know what industry is doing to stop those verdammt Mosquitos. No mention, anywhere, of a B-29 threat that needs to be addressed. There is a story that the Night Fighter version of the Ju 388 were built to counter a spoof RAF plan to bomb from the stratosphere at night thus wasting Luftwaffe resources. Certainly the Ju388 would also have been capable of a night time interception of a B29 class aircraft but it was never needed. I have huge doubts that anyone in the RLM , the LW, or Junkers gave any credence to the whimsical notion that a super-bomber from the USA was coming in 1945, to bomb the Reich *at night*. By the time the 8-388 was coming off the drawing boards, Harris had announced that "...the RAF was out of targets", and at about the same time, Bomber Command began switching over to daylight bombing. I really have to wonder about the source of your info as I haven't seen anything from BAMA that agrees with it. B-29s at night? Really?? I know the RLM made some idiotic mistakes, but I can't imagine they would entertain this notion, to the point that they directed a version of the Ju 388 be prepared to counter it. Most of the RLMs (I don't blame the Luftwaffe so much) bad procurment options seem to have come out of a directives built around an assumption of victory within 2 years. Plenty of blame to go around - with the exceptio of Udet, most of the RLM strikes me as incompetent. Understandable but risky reasoning as a war extending beyond that would exhaust the resource poorer and outnumbered Reich so they poured their energies into a sucker punch with the technology that they had. It failed. My wife constantly corrects me, when I insist on "putting it all on black". She has taught me over the years that 'if you ain't got a backup plan, you ain't got a plan', and it seems that Hitler and crew never even considered a backup plan. Thankfully, they hadn't married my wife... That combined with delays in the Jumo 004B and the Jumo 222 piston engine meant that they were at a qualitative disadvantage. By 1943 the Me262 should have been in service and the Ju288 bomber with a speed of 408mph, 8800lb internal bombload and powerfull remote controlled armament should also have been in service. The Jumo 004B was the main delay in Me262 availability and the Jumo 222 only entered production right at the end of the war for whatever reason. Plus, too many projects were left waiting for these two, and the BMW 003. I guess we should be thankfull. With an Armament of 4 x 20mm and 1 x 30mm cannon it had the power to do so. Few carried that armament, Some I beleive carried the higher velocity Mk 151/15 15mm cannon instead of the Mk151/20mm cannon. The low velocity Mk108 30mm cannon was carried but some version may have reached the front with the much heavier Mk103 long barrelled 30mm cannon. I can only assumed some versions carried the old FW190D armament. From photos in my collection (and Nowarra's), it looks like there was little standardization by this period - if they had cannons, they were fitted. Then the pilots and warts removed what wasn't wanted. I interview JG 300 pilots periodically and by that late in the war, pilots were opting for light armament and stripped down a/c, whether they were nachtjäger or day fighters -- speed was life and little else mattered. The day of loading armor and hanging extra cannons on airframes was over and all that remained was a desire to get the most performance out of each machine, to give the pilot a tiny momentary edge. So, the lighter the better, including armament. Some of NJG 11 and JG 300, 301 and 302 birds carried as little as a single pair of 20mm cannons - one of my JG 301 photos shows exactly this setup with an FW 190 D; the cowl guns are removed and there is only one gun per wing. My guess is that the pilot was not worried about not having enough firepower, he just wanted the lightest ship he could find. and the Ta 152 program was cancelled before the war ended, I think a very large number of programs were cancelled in the last 2 months of the war. That's obvious, but others, including the Dornier and a small assortment of jets, were ordered to stay in production. while the Do 335 remained on the construction orders right to the end. I believe if the B-29 ever arrived over Europe during the war, it would have been met by the Dornier and the Me 262, which were the fighters that were still intended to be built as of late April 45. It certainly was a heavily armed aricraft wich could carry high velocity weapons. (4 x Mk151/15 or 20/ and 1 x Mk103) The problem this aircraft had was its nose prop which required a pairing of two aircraft in a zwilling (double mustan arrangement) for the radardome or antenna built into the leading edge of the wing. (By this time the FuG 244 microwave radars were intended for nightfighters) The Zwilling 335 never made it off paper - the NF 335 would have remained more traditional (if that can be said of any 335), with a humped spine for the bordfunker and a leading-edge radar array. German pilots were odd when it came to radar: while RAF nightfighter crews considered it an indespensible tool, most LW crews thought of it as an extra weapon, to enhance their primary night detection device, their eyes. As strange as that may sound, its a common comment among vets. Since they had watched every single innovation of theirs used against them by the British and their hunter-killer Mosquitos, flying around broadcasting a radar was not seen as a terribly bright idea by 1944-1945. Unlike other projects that led no-where, the NF 335 had already had its prototype built and test flown -- were the war to continue, there is no doubt that within weeks, it would have been in full production, as the Jägerstab ordered. At that point, the RAF had already started to shut down the night raids, so it was all moot. v/r Gordon ====(A+C==== USN SAR Aircrew "Got anything on your radar, SENSO?" "Nothing but my forehead, sir." |
#12
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It is said that when
TA152s were in the air no Me262s were ever lost. Not all Ta 152s were used in that role. JV 44s Fockes were 4 190D-9s and a single 190D-11. seems ridiculous to expect a mere handful of 190s to be able to protect "Turbos", when every single "silberplatz" had been identified and targeted by the Allies! As far as performance was concerned the Ta 152 in 1945 was inferior to the latest Mark of Spitfire under 30,000 ft. Between 30,000-35,000 ft the aircraft were equal. Above 35,000 ft the Ta 152 was superior all the way up to 50,000 ft! Which pilot logged a flight to 50k in a Ta 152? Curious to know is all. p.s. The Ta 152 was also fitted with a LGW-Siemens K23 autopilot to reduce pilot fatigue. Hmmmm. Most flights by this point in the war were not that long and the K22 and K23 notations I have seen in conjunction with single engine fighters is to enhance their foul weather performance, as I see this autopilot included in the "Schlechtwetterjäger" variants of various late war fighters. Gordon ====(A+C==== USN SAR Aircrew "Got anything on your radar, SENSO?" "Nothing but my forehead, sir." |
#13
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#14
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Uh, haven't you heard of the famous "Galland Circus"? Gee, Rob, why don't you educate me about it? Of the 4 primary craft, two pilots were aces with 104 and 15 kills respectively. Yes, I know - I have their autographed photos and letters from Mr. 104. Tracking down and interviewing these guys is what I do. Yesterday, it was four pilots and a bombardier from the 461st (in town to visit the air museum and check in on the massive scale B-24 model), but usually, I stick to LW and RAF guys, including the airfield protection Papagai Staffel. Apparently, none of the aircraft were lost during operations and no record of a 262 lost when the "Platzschutzstaffel" was operating. That had far more to do with Galland's procedures for approaching the field than superiority of the defending prop fighters, again, only a handful. JG 7 and KG 51 lost literally dozens of aircraft attempting to land or just after takeoff. Galland learned from their mistakes and did things differently - resulting in far fewer losses per sortie than either of the earlier units. You can thank D and the other pilots in the Doras; I think credit goes to Galland and his combat leadership. Don't have that info as far as Luftwaffe pilots were concerned; however, Russian NII VVS tested the Ta 152 up to that height. For simplicity sake let's just say "above 35,000 ft"... Don't know of any Abschusse reports claiming a victory at that height for the Ta. It would be interesting to see one. Hmmmm. Most flights by this point in the war were not that long and the K22 and K23 notations I have seen in conjunction with single engine fighters is to enhance their foul weather performance, as I see this autopilot included in the "Schlechtwetterjäger" variants of various late war fighters. Most WW2 aircraft reference manuals I have on the Ta 152 feature the K23 with no special notations. The actual wartime documents state clearly that the inclusion of the autopilot was one aspect of the change over to the "Schlectwetterjäger" standard. Regular FW 190s and Bf 109s had the same upgraded electronics in a 'foul weather' late war variant. The RLM recognized that they were facing an enemy that could bomb through overcasts, so the LW couldn't sit on the ground in a drizzle and wait for clear weather to respond. To make up for this, a percentage of each "day fighter" production was to be augmented with a nominal array of electronics and other navaids to allow for a crude all-weather fighter to be fielded without requiring an all new version to be built. Gordon |
#15
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#16
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Gordon wrote:
: Plenty of blame to go around - with the exceptio of Udet, most of the RLM : strikes me as incompetent. Udet wasn't particularly competent either. A fine pilot, but a poor industrialist, who did not plan sufficiently ahead and really could not cope with the stress of his office. : The Zwilling 335 never made it off paper - the NF 335 would have remained more : traditional (if that can be said of any 335), with a humped spine for the : bordfunker and a leading-edge radar array. No humped spine, actually: That was the trainer model, of which some were modified as part of the prototype programme. But the real nightfighter version would have a straight spine, which meant that the radar operator had little outside view, but apparently that wasn't much of a requirement. : German pilots were odd when it came to radar: while RAF nightfighter : crews considered it an indespensible tool, most LW crews thought of : it as an extra weapon, to enhance their primary night : detection device, their eyes. German nightfighter radars failed to come even close to the performance of the British centimetric radar sets. The yagi aerials would always have broad, overlapping transmit/receive lobes, and target location was by comparing the signal differences. IN contrast, centimetric radar beams could be steered by parabolic reflector dishes; giving much better resolution and low-altitude performance. At the very end of the war, the Germans had copied sets which had fallen into their hands in the 'Berlin' radar sets, which was fitted to a handful of Ju 88G nightfighters. However, it would hardly have been possible to fit this to the Do 335; except perhaps in a large underwing pod. So the Ju 388 was actually the better basis for a future nightfighter. Emmanuel Gustin |
#17
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