Permit to use aircraft radio frequencies on ground

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 02:55:16 GMT, Gord Beaman
wrote:

Well, CJ, I wouldn't want you to pass up a good thing because of
incorrect info so perhaps you should check out about this
'illegal' thing. They have cell phones installed in the seat
backs of some commercial airliners for the use of passengers
(I've seen them but haven't used one) so they sure aren't
illegal,

Good morning, Gord.

As others have mentioned, those phonse aren't cellular (I didn't know
that they were actually satellite phones but it makes sense that they
would be). I have used those phones once or twice and while they are
quite expensive to use, they do work rather well and are a lot better
than nothing if you have to get in touch with the ground from an
airliner.

There are also satellite phones that work in private airplanes but
that's a rather expensive option too. I already have the radios and
antennas I need and if I can license one of them as a ground station
from our office, I can do everything we need to do for only the cost
of the license.

Cellular phones are definitely illegal, no question about it, for use
in airplanes that are not sitting on the ground. This is from FCC
rules, not FAA, though FAA has their own rules.

Note also that there are also Personal Communications Service (PCS)
phones, such as Sprint PCS, that are erroneously referred to as "cell"
phones but are not; they work in a different service (the PCS service
rather than the cellular service). Those phones ARE legal to use in
airplanes. Unfortulately they often don't work well in airplanes, for
the same reason that cellular phones usually won't work well ... the
ground station antennas are designed to keep all of the radiation low
to the ground and minimuze the radiation that goes out above the
horizon, so if you're much higher than about 2000 feet or so, it's
hard to get a connection.

Also, I have been told (not sure if this is true) that both cellular
and PCS ground stations have the ability to detect how far away you
are from the station, probably by sending out a signal and measuring
the time it takes to get a reply, and if you're beyond some limit (35
miles was mentioned), they won't let you connect.

CJ

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 16:09:21 -0500, C. J. Clegg
wrote:

We have a small consulting company that owns an airplane that is used
for business trips. From time to time it would be useful to be able
to contact the airplane from our office which is not located on any
airport. What do we need to do to get authorization to install an
aircraft band radio at our office and use it to contact the company
airplane?

Thanks...

We've got one in our office.

Long story short, you can review the myriad of regulations and
sub-agencies involved, obtain/complete all the required paperwork and
apply to the FCC for an assigned operating frequency and a license.

Or, you can contact AIRINC. They are in the business of obtaining all
the necessary information, filling out all the required paperwork, and
getting you a frequency and a site license.

Their fees are reasonable (but not cheap), both initially, and
annually.

Through AIRINC, you also can set up a system that will allow you to
contact your aircraft virtually anywhere, however, it is much more
expensive.

The system we have in place is as you describe, a licensed aviation
band transceiver that allows two-way communication with our company
aircraft that are in the vicinity of the radio station.

Regards;

TC

The most often used ruse is to have somebody in the office get some sort of
instructor license...the most often used is the "basic ground instructor"
and the exam is like a private exam on steroids. There is no practical;
pass the written and you am one.

Then you file the appropriate form with the FCC for an "aviation school"
frequency, either 123.3 or 123.5, whichever is the least used frequency in
your area. If you don't abuse the privilege and start yakking uselessly on
the frequency, you will be good to go for a long time.

Jim





wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 16:09:21 -0500, C. J. Clegg
wrote:

We have a small consulting company that owns an airplane that is used
for business trips. From time to time it would be useful to be able
to contact the airplane from our office which is not located on any
airport. What do we need to do to get authorization to install an
aircraft band radio at our office and use it to contact the company
airplane?

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:57:42 -0800, "RST Engineering"
wrote:

The most often used ruse is to have somebody in the office get some sort of
instructor license...the most often used is the "basic ground instructor"
and the exam is like a private exam on steroids. There is no practical;
pass the written and you am one.

Then you file the appropriate form with the FCC for an "aviation school"
frequency, either 123.3 or 123.5, whichever is the least used frequency in
your area. If you don't abuse the privilege and start yakking uselessly on
the frequency, you will be good to go for a long time.

Honestly, I don't remember what exactly our station license consists
of. Basically, it states that we will use the assigned frequency for
inter-company communication-such as passenger/manifest info, fuel
requests, pilot/ground communication, etc.

Everybody in the office has at least a PPL, not being a radio guy, I
would assume that eliminates the need for a licensed "operator" on the
ground.

In our area, it ended up being a pretty "quiet" freq, with very little
communication other than ours.

Not saying that the way we did was the only way it can happen, just
that it was the easiest way to do it "officially", and we expected to
pay AIRINC for making it easier.

Regards;

TC

{posted at Jer's request; he has ...an oil leak on his
server, yea, that's it..}




Of course...and the term is no longer 'cellular' anyway it seems,
they now seem to prefer 'Mobile phones' so I guess it's a moot
point, but ISTM that the aircraft cel system is a helluva lot
closer to the terrestrial cel system than anything else.

No. "Mobile phones" is an entirely separate service, running
in the 152 Mhz and 450 Mhz bands... this is what we had BEFORE
cell phones. :-)

I was a "Mobile phone" dispatcher when I was at university...
1970 - 1974. :-)

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 221 Young Eagles!
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

David Lesher wrote:


{posted at Jer's request; he has ...an oil leak on his
server, yea, that's it..}




Of course...and the term is no longer 'cellular' anyway it seems,
they now seem to prefer 'Mobile phones' so I guess it's a moot
point, but ISTM that the aircraft cel system is a helluva lot
closer to the terrestrial cel system than anything else.

No. "Mobile phones" is an entirely separate service, running
in the 152 Mhz and 450 Mhz bands... this is what we had BEFORE
cell phones. :-)

I was a "Mobile phone" dispatcher when I was at university...
1970 - 1974. :-)

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard


Yes, you're quite correct in what you say about the old 'Mobile
phones'.

I was the chief (only) tech for a small communications company
where we installed 'Key telephone systems' and Mobile Car
Phones', BUT I was just pointing out that the cellular phone
companies 'now' call them 'mobile phones' (again?).

I have a brand new handout sheet here for the kind of cel phone
that I'm interested in exchanging for my present one...remember
that I said NEW handout...it calls them 'mobile phones'...I'll
scan it and email it to you if you cannot take my word for it...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

Gord Beaman wrote:
David Lesher wrote:

Yup! Gord is correct... that is what the industry is saying.
However, I believe the FCC is still with the old nomenclature
vis-a-vis Mobile Phone vs Cell.

Jer/ Eberhard


{posted at Jer's request; he has ...an oil leak on his
server, yea, that's it..}




Of course...and the term is no longer 'cellular' anyway it seems,
they now seem to prefer 'Mobile phones' so I guess it's a moot
point, but ISTM that the aircraft cel system is a helluva lot
closer to the terrestrial cel system than anything else.

No. "Mobile phones" is an entirely separate service, running
in the 152 Mhz and 450 Mhz bands... this is what we had BEFORE
cell phones. :-)

I was a "Mobile phone" dispatcher when I was at university...
1970 - 1974. :-)

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard


Yes, you're quite correct in what you say about the old 'Mobile
phones'.

I was the chief (only) tech for a small communications company
where we installed 'Key telephone systems' and Mobile Car
Phones', BUT I was just pointing out that the cellular phone
companies 'now' call them 'mobile phones' (again?).

I have a brand new handout sheet here for the kind of cel phone
that I'm interested in exchanging for my present one...remember
that I said NEW handout...it calls them 'mobile phones'...I'll
scan it and email it to you if you cannot take my word for it...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)


Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 221 Young Eagles!