Missing flight plans

"Emily" wrote in message
. ..
Jim Carter wrote:
Three weeks ago, on a Saturday morning we had a plan on file, opened
with Jonesboro Radio and went trucking off merrily across the
countryside. We arrived at our destination about 2.5 later and called to
cancel - the plan was never opened. Kind of scary...

VFR or IFR?

Ummm....

"Michelle" wrote in

Let me answer your question with another question: why do you file all
the time (why only IFR) now and not then?

I can't answer for Wizard, but he seems to be doing the same thing I did
/ am doing.

If it's severe clear out and I have a one hour flight, either I go IFR or
not talk to a soul. Sure things can happen, but if I am enroute to a
destination, the person expecting me knows my arrival time and if I don't
arrive within a set time I tell them, they know to call FSS.

Reason for me going IFR is that I can't be willy nilly dropped from the
system, and I have company for the ride. With VFR flight following, it
is on a work load basis, and if I was upstairs for a couple of hours, I
want to be assured that I don't get dropped from the system. I don't
have to worry about airspace issues or cloud clearances.

Another reason for not using a VFR flight plan is that once I am on the
ground, I am done, no remembering to call flight services, no looking up
the local FSS to close my plan and so on and so on.

One time before getting my instrument rating, I diverted to another
airport which caused all sorts of confusion with FSS. I called in to
close my plan, and said I landed at a different airport. Next thing you
know, I get a phone call from my destination contact all in a quandry to
where am I inspite of me calling them to let them know I was in a
different city / state because flight service got things discombobled
some how. At least with the IFR plan, I divert to another controlled
airport, then my plan is cancelled without adding additional stress of
closing a plan.

As to your question, it just seems so "unprofessional" and I think
unprofessional conduct by pilots is a big part of the reason GA has
such a higher accident rate than cars, and private pilots have the
highest rates among their pilot brethren.

Here's where I respectfully disagree with you. Filing a VFR flight plan
does nothing for professionalism. I don't see any difference in me
jumping in my Sundowner for a one hour flight down to the coast then me
driving in my Dodge Ram one hour to another destination.

I am fortunate enough to own my own plane, and I expect each button to
turn, twist, pull or push. If I don't have faith in my own equipment,
then I shouldn't leave the ground.

The professionalism I do see in private pilots is getting a briefing,
doing all checklists, flying to point A to B and landing in the same
condition they left in. Filing a VFR flight plan does nothing to enhance
this. For that matter, filing an IFR flight plan does nothing for
professionalism. It's all the presentation.

One thing I find inexcuseable is not getting a preflight briefing. The
one and only time I did not get a briefing, I suffered the on air
embarrasment of being asked if I was aware of a balloon activity notam.
All I was doing was going to the practice area. I made myself a promise
from that date forward, I will never fly without getting a FSS briefing.
It sure is simple enough and I do it on the ride to the airport.

Ok, rambled enough, flame away *big smile*

Allen

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 08/04/06 13:42, Newps wrote:


Mark Hansen wrote:



Actually, ATC is not required to maintain communications with you,
and if you suddenly disappear, they may assume you just went off-
frequency and shut off your transponder (or had a power failure,
etc.). I don't see why they would begin a search and rescue in
this case.


ATC is required to, that's why.


When you're on flight following (traffic advisories) and have stop
talking to ATC, they are required to begin a search and rescue operation?

Yes, if the loss of comm or radar was unexpected.

On 08/04/06 14:55, Newps wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 08/04/06 13:42, Newps wrote:


Mark Hansen wrote:



Actually, ATC is not required to maintain communications with you,
and if you suddenly disappear, they may assume you just went off-
frequency and shut off your transponder (or had a power failure,
etc.). I don't see why they would begin a search and rescue in
this case.


ATC is required to, that's why.


When you're on flight following (traffic advisories) and have stop
talking to ATC, they are required to begin a search and rescue operation?

Yes, if the loss of comm or radar was unexpected.

Can you provide a reference to the regulation that explains this? It is
not what I was taught - and I'm always willing to learn ;-)

Thanks,



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

On 08/04/06 14:57, Mark Hansen wrote:
On 08/04/06 14:55, Newps wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 08/04/06 13:42, Newps wrote:


Mark Hansen wrote:



Actually, ATC is not required to maintain communications with you,
and if you suddenly disappear, they may assume you just went off-
frequency and shut off your transponder (or had a power failure,
etc.). I don't see why they would begin a search and rescue in
this case.


ATC is required to, that's why.


When you're on flight following (traffic advisories) and have stop
talking to ATC, they are required to begin a search and rescue operation?

Yes, if the loss of comm or radar was unexpected.

Can you provide a reference to the regulation that explains this?

Just to clarify, what I mean is can you show the regulation which states
that ATC is required to begin search and rescue operations if they lose
radio contact with an airplane that was on flight following.

It is
not what I was taught - and I'm always willing to learn ;-)

Thanks,






--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

B A R R Y wrote:
On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 21:48:10 GMT, A Lieberma
wrote:

With VFR flight following, it
is on a work load basis, and if I was upstairs for a couple of hours, I
want to be assured that I don't get dropped from the system.


Just on this one point, have you ever been denied VFR flight
following?

The controllers I've met have told me that they LIKE it when we're
talking to them.

Thanks!
I've been denied flight following on a number of occasions. I do keep an
appropriate ATC frequency in the radio most of the time even if I am not
getting flight following. I also keep 121.5 on comm 2 at all times. I
was quite impressed with the the response we heard when the cub called
MayDay over the lake on the way back from OSH. The controllers had him
on the scope in seconds and assured him they had him. The response from
ATC rescued the passenger although it was too late for the pilot, rest
his soul.

Margy

B A R R Y wrote in

Just on this one point, have you ever been denied VFR flight
following?

The controllers I've met have told me that they LIKE it when we're
talking to them.

Never by approach controllers, but on centers, yes. The very flight I
diverted, I had flight following, and the airport I was going to, the
weather forecast was a bust from 4500 broken forecast to 800 solid overcast
which obviously made me divert to another airport VFR. So center was busy
with IFR traffic while I was dumb and happy VFR over the top enroute.

It was suppose to break up before I got there, and instead of breaking up,
it worsen, so here I was stuck VFR over the top.

I picked up an approach controller closer to my destination and requested
assistance on finding a VFR airport which they were gracious enough to do.

Allen

Mark Hansen wrote:


Yes, if the loss of comm or radar was unexpected.


Can you provide a reference to the regulation that explains this? It is
not what I was taught - and I'm always willing to learn ;-)

It's not an FAR. As a controller I'm not bound by those. It's in the
7110.65 That's the rules for controllers.

Mark Hansen wrote:




Just to clarify, what I mean is can you show the regulation which states
that ATC is required to begin search and rescue operations if they lose
radio contact with an airplane that was on flight following.

Absolutely. Knock yourself out.


http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/ATC/index.htm

In article ,
"Michelle" wrote:

As to your question, it just seems so "unprofessional" and I think
unprofessional conduct by pilots is a big part of the reason GA has such a
higher accident rate than cars, and private pilots have the highest rates
among their pilot brethren.

A flight plan on file will reduce accidents? Please explain.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate