IFR on the Fly

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 03:37:11 GMT, (Ben Jackson) wrote:

You picked an alternate when you got a pop-up clearance for an approach?

That is not the point.

However, I pick an alternate well before that, IAW 91.103. Don't you?

I have an alternate for every flight, whether it is an IFR pop-up or not.
As a matter of fact, I pick an alternate for even flights in the vicinity
of an airport. One can never tell if a runway will be closed due to an
accident.

I list the alternate on my flight plan when it is legally required. And
even then, the alternate I might use will not necessarily be the one that I
put down on the flight plan.

And I also consider that loss of radios in a SEL a/c in IMC is an emergency
condition.

BUT the point is that there is no charted missed approach procedure for a
contact approach. So you climb in a direction that you think is clear of
obstacles, and hope that your memory and situational awareness are such as
to provide you with adequate obstacle clearance. On a contact approach,
even though you have (hopefully) negotiated some procedure with ATC in the
event you cannot successfully complete the approach, YOU have the
responsibility for obstacle clearance.

If the weather is unpredictably going down the tubes, I'd much prefer to be
on a charted, heavy black line and have positive course guidance.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

I'll take a chance and assume you're talking about KISW. Conditions by me,
east of there went from 2000 and 5 to just about 0 around noon Saturday,
snowing like heck. One problem in our area is poor radar coverage at that
altitude from ZMSP. While inbound in close to the airport while IFR but not
yet on an approach segment I've had students request a lower altitude than
3000 to remain out of icing. I've only heard of one case that they let the
guy go down to 2800, but that was it.

The thing to keep in mind would be that they may not have complete radar
coverage on you, they may have a primary fix, but not mode C info. You
could try asking for a clearance at your current altitude, give them a
position report and they may clear you to an initial approach fix requireing
you to report at the fix, then once you do clearing you for the approach.
You could then circle to land if required.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

Brien K. Meehan ) wrote:

Peter R. wrote:
Do a 180 and find a nearby airport outside the lower
visibility.

That might be the right answer for a non-rated PPL, but with 3SM
visibility and 1800ft ceiling, there's no good reason to do that if
you can just get an IFR clearance and continue.

I believe the OP was concerned about icing in the clouds. ATC, given the
MEA of 3,000, might have sent him up in the clouds as part of his
clearance.

Thus, my question about the minimum vectoring altitude.

--
Peter












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Sami,
Did this happen to you recently and if so what did you do - Or is this a
"what if" scenario you were just going over in case?


"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:

Let's say your 15 miles from your home airport in VMC, not on a flight
plan. You know the area well. On your way, unforecast conditions
(snow) causes visibility to start dropping below 3 miles. Ceilings are
at 1800. You are just below the ceiling. You know the area well enough
to do a contact approach safely, even though the MSA for the area is
3000 ft MSL (2000 ft AGL).

Seems like the right thing to do in such a situation is to call ATC,
tell them your situation (although I am not sure precisely what one
would say), and ask for an on-the-fly IFR contact approach clearance.
It seems like seeking a full IFR approach causes one to go up into the
clouds and risk icing, and so would be a less safe alternative.
Opinions?

-Sami
N2057M, Piper Turbo Arrrow III

Ummm, let's just say that it was a very vivid hypothetical
Why do you ask?

-Sami

Jeff wrote:
Sami,
Did this happen to you recently and if so what did you do - Or is this a
"what if" scenario you were just going over in case?


"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:


Let's say your 15 miles from your home airport in VMC, not on a flight
plan. You know the area well. On your way, unforecast conditions
(snow) causes visibility to start dropping below 3 miles. Ceilings are
at 1800. You are just below the ceiling. You know the area well enough
to do a contact approach safely, even though the MSA for the area is
3000 ft MSL (2000 ft AGL).

Seems like the right thing to do in such a situation is to call ATC,
tell them your situation (although I am not sure precisely what one
would say), and ask for an on-the-fly IFR contact approach clearance.
It seems like seeking a full IFR approach causes one to go up into the
clouds and risk icing, and so would be a less safe alternative.
Opinions?

-Sami
N2057M, Piper Turbo Arrrow III

LOL... I was just curoius as to what you did.

dont worry, I wont flame you or tell you not to fly or anything stupid like
that, was just wondering what decision you made in the heat of the moment.

Sitting back here he a nice safe house its so easy to put others down and to
say what is suppose to happen, even the big airline pilots make mistakes or
sometimes do things different then what they would do if they had time to sit
at home and arm chair quarterback it.



"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:

Ummm, let's just say that it was a very vivid hypothetical
Why do you ask?

-Sami

Jeff wrote:
Sami,
Did this happen to you recently and if so what did you do - Or is this a
"what if" scenario you were just going over in case?


"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:


Let's say your 15 miles from your home airport in VMC, not on a flight
plan. You know the area well. On your way, unforecast conditions
(snow) causes visibility to start dropping below 3 miles. Ceilings are
at 1800. You are just below the ceiling. You know the area well enough
to do a contact approach safely, even though the MSA for the area is
3000 ft MSL (2000 ft AGL).

Seems like the right thing to do in such a situation is to call ATC,
tell them your situation (although I am not sure precisely what one
would say), and ask for an on-the-fly IFR contact approach clearance.
It seems like seeking a full IFR approach causes one to go up into the
clouds and risk icing, and so would be a less safe alternative.
Opinions?

-Sami
N2057M, Piper Turbo Arrrow III