Is it easier now?

"ArtKramr" wrote

Did military discipline become looser and more liberal since WWI?. Is
military life easier now than it was then?

Yes (enlisted wise, probably not officer-wise). No one in the U.S. Armed
Forces is less than a high school graduate. With that, comes an education
base that consists of much more self-discipline. I'd say that after 1975,
the imposed discipline went away.

For example, in the Army, we had monthly detail duty at the Brig. It was
almost always full. After about 1975 the Brig was mostly empty, except for
a few sad cases, like AWOL or Desertion by men with hardship problems
back home. I remember in 1968 I had the detail at Fort Ord, and we had
three murderers, one arsonist, about 20 drug addicts, and maybe a couple
of queers. In 1989 I was assigned to take a rapist to Lawton, Oklahoma
and that was the first time in 10 years I had the detail.

When I retired, all you had to do was post the detail roster, and assign your
men to whatever training or duty you thought they needed, and they did it.
Most just wanted to get promoted as fast as they could.

In article ,
on 26 Feb 2004 20:44:20 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/26/04 12:13 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Did military discipline become looser and more liberal since WWI?. Is
military life easier now than it was then?

Do you mean compared to when the Oklahoma National Guard (45th Infantry)
liberated Dachau?



"Liberated" ? As I remember it there was no German resistance whatever. All the
Germans had left and they just walked in without a shot being fired. Hardly the
equivalent of landing on Omaha beach was it?. (sheesh)

Yes, I guess your right.

I mean the 41st Infantry had an easy time in New Guinea during 1942/43.

Or that Provisional Tank battalion that ended up on the Bataan penensula
in 1941 as infantry after they ran out of fuel.

I mean, they were just National Guard troops....
Not real soldiers, right Art ?

--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: Tank Fixer
Date: 2/26/04 7:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t

In article ,
on 26 Feb 2004 20:44:20 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/26/04 12:13 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Did military discipline become looser and more liberal since WWI?. Is
military life easier now than it was then?

Do you mean compared to when the Oklahoma National Guard (45th Infantry)
liberated Dachau?



"Liberated" ? As I remember it there was no German resistance whatever. All
the
Germans had left and they just walked in without a shot being fired. Hardly
the
equivalent of landing on Omaha beach was it?. (sheesh)

Yes, I guess your right.

I mean the 41st Infantry had an easy time in New Guinea during 1942/43.

Or that Provisional Tank battalion that ended up on the Bataan penensula
in 1941 as infantry after they ran out of fuel.

I mean, they were just National Guard troops....
Not real soldiers, right Art ?

--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.







Subject: Is it easier now?
From: Tank Fixer
Date: 2/26/04 7:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t

In article ,
on 26 Feb 2004 20:44:20 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/26/04 12:13 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Did military discipline become looser and more liberal since WWI?. Is
military life easier now than it was then?

Do you mean compared to when the Oklahoma National Guard (45th Infantry)
liberated Dachau?



"Liberated" ? As I remember it there was no German resistance whatever. All
the
Germans had left and they just walked in without a shot being fired. Hardly
the
equivalent of landing on Omaha beach was it?. (sheesh)

Yes, I guess your right.

I mean the 41st Infantry had an easy time in New Guinea during 1942/43.

Or that Provisional Tank battalion that ended up on the Bataan penensula
in 1941 as infantry after they ran out of fuel.

I mean, they were just National Guard troops....
Not real soldiers, right Art ?



At least Bush wasn't hiding in those units right?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In article ,
on 27 Feb 2004 03:49:51 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: Tank Fixer
Date: 2/26/04 7:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t

In article ,
on 26 Feb 2004 20:44:20 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....


"Liberated" ? As I remember it there was no German resistance whatever. All
the
Germans had left and they just walked in without a shot being fired. Hardly
the
equivalent of landing on Omaha beach was it?. (sheesh)

Yes, I guess your right.

I mean the 41st Infantry had an easy time in New Guinea during 1942/43.

Or that Provisional Tank battalion that ended up on the Bataan penensula
in 1941 as infantry after they ran out of fuel.

I mean, they were just National Guard troops....
Not real soldiers, right Art ?



At least Bush wasn't hiding in those units right?

No, he was flying a rather unforgiving aircraft.

Or are you saying the USAF had lax standards for pilot training in the
early 70's ?



--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Is it easier now?
From: Tank Fixer
Date: 2/26/04 7:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t

In article ,
on 26 Feb 2004 20:44:20 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/26/04 12:13 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Did military discipline become looser and more liberal since WWI?.
Is
military life easier now than it was then?

Do you mean compared to when the Oklahoma National Guard (45th
Infantry)
liberated Dachau?



"Liberated" ? As I remember it there was no German resistance whatever.
All
the
Germans had left and they just walked in without a shot being fired.
Hardly
the
equivalent of landing on Omaha beach was it?. (sheesh)

Yes, I guess your right.

I mean the 41st Infantry had an easy time in New Guinea during 1942/43.

Or that Provisional Tank battalion that ended up on the Bataan penensula
in 1941 as infantry after they ran out of fuel.

I mean, they were just National Guard troops....
Not real soldiers, right Art ?



At least Bush wasn't hiding in those units right?

Why not just answer the question instead of trying to hide behind personal
attacks?

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Ragnar"
Date: 2/27/04 12:18 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Is it easier now?
From: Tank Fixer
Date: 2/26/04 7:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t

In article ,
on 26 Feb 2004 20:44:20 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/26/04 12:13 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Did military discipline become looser and more liberal since WWI?.
Is
military life easier now than it was then?

Do you mean compared to when the Oklahoma National Guard (45th
Infantry)
liberated Dachau?



"Liberated" ? As I remember it there was no German resistance whatever.
All
the
Germans had left and they just walked in without a shot being fired.
Hardly
the
equivalent of landing on Omaha beach was it?. (sheesh)

Yes, I guess your right.

I mean the 41st Infantry had an easy time in New Guinea during 1942/43.

Or that Provisional Tank battalion that ended up on the Bataan penensula
in 1941 as infantry after they ran out of fuel.

I mean, they were just National Guard troops....
Not real soldiers, right Art ?



At least Bush wasn't hiding in those units right?

Why not just answer the question instead of trying to hide behind personal
attacks?


I'll let Colin Powell answer for me:

"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and
well-placed managed to wangle slots in the Army Reserve and National
Guard units... Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class
discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all
Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: Tank Fixer
Date: 2/26/04 11:31 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t

In article ,
on 27 Feb 2004 03:49:51 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: Tank Fixer
Date: 2/26/04 7:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t

In article ,
on 26 Feb 2004 20:44:20 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....


"Liberated" ? As I remember it there was no German resistance whatever.
All
the
Germans had left and they just walked in without a shot being fired.
Hardly
the
equivalent of landing on Omaha beach was it?. (sheesh)

Yes, I guess your right.

I mean the 41st Infantry had an easy time in New Guinea during 1942/43.

Or that Provisional Tank battalion that ended up on the Bataan penensula
in 1941 as infantry after they ran out of fuel.

I mean, they were just National Guard troops....
Not real soldiers, right Art ?



At least Bush wasn't hiding in those units right?

No, he was flying a rather unforgiving aircraft.

Or are you saying the USAF had lax standards for pilot training in the
early 70's ?


As Colin Powell said:
"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and
well-placed managed to wangle slots in the Army Reserve and National
Guard units... Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class
discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all
Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Is it easier now?
From: Tank Fixer
Date: 2/26/04 11:31 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t

In article ,
on 27 Feb 2004 03:49:51 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: Tank Fixer
Date: 2/26/04 7:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t

In article ,
on 26 Feb 2004 20:44:20 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....


"Liberated" ? As I remember it there was no German resistance
whatever.
All
the
Germans had left and they just walked in without a shot being fired.
Hardly
the
equivalent of landing on Omaha beach was it?. (sheesh)

Yes, I guess your right.

I mean the 41st Infantry had an easy time in New Guinea during
1942/43.

Or that Provisional Tank battalion that ended up on the Bataan
penensula
in 1941 as infantry after they ran out of fuel.

I mean, they were just National Guard troops....
Not real soldiers, right Art ?



At least Bush wasn't hiding in those units right?

No, he was flying a rather unforgiving aircraft.

Or are you saying the USAF had lax standards for pilot training in the
early 70's ?


As Colin Powell said:
"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and
well-placed managed to wangle slots in the Army Reserve and National
Guard units... Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class
discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all
Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."

You got any new tunes you can play? That one has proven to be a bit
stale--especially given the response that same individual provided to the
smart-assed congressional staffer who wanted to visit the issue during
testimaony a week or two back...but you probably missed that, right? Just
like you seem to have missed every other significant development that has
occured since 1945.

Brooks




Arthur Kramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Ragnar"
Date: 2/27/04 12:18 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Is it easier now?
From: Tank Fixer
Date: 2/26/04 7:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t

In article ,
on 26 Feb 2004 20:44:20 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/26/04 12:13 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Did military discipline become looser and more liberal since
WWI?.
Is
military life easier now than it was then?

Do you mean compared to when the Oklahoma National Guard (45th
Infantry)
liberated Dachau?



"Liberated" ? As I remember it there was no German resistance
whatever.
All
the
Germans had left and they just walked in without a shot being fired.
Hardly
the
equivalent of landing on Omaha beach was it?. (sheesh)

Yes, I guess your right.

I mean the 41st Infantry had an easy time in New Guinea during
1942/43.

Or that Provisional Tank battalion that ended up on the Bataan
penensula
in 1941 as infantry after they ran out of fuel.

I mean, they were just National Guard troops....
Not real soldiers, right Art ?



At least Bush wasn't hiding in those units right?

Why not just answer the question instead of trying to hide behind
personal
attacks?


I'll let Colin Powell answer for me:

"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and
well-placed managed to wangle slots in the Army Reserve and National
Guard units... Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class
discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all
Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."

Was Colin Powell talking about the NG personnel in question at Bataan or on
New Guinea (while you were still whining in high school)? Nope. Still can't
bear to face the question, huh?

Brooks





Arthur Kramer

Mr Kramer wrote:

I'll let Colin Powell answer for me:

"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and
well-placed managed to wangle slots in the Army Reserve and National
Guard units... Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class
discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all
Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."


A little improvement, at least now Art puts it in quotation marks and
attributes it to someone else. Not trying to make it appear to be his original
thought as he did at the start of the go round on the National Guard.

Try answering the question Art!

Art, you were in advertizing, correct? Did you ever have an original thought?

Rick Clark