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B-17s straffing & IJN Aoba, & UK POWs



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 6th 12, 09:54 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,alt.history.british
Nightjar
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Posts: 1
Default B-17s straffing & IJN Aoba, & UK POWs

On 03/04/2012 17:49, David E. Powell wrote:
On Apr 3, 1:18 am, Bill wrote:
wrote:
So, by then, the B-17 crews had figured out that high altitude level
bombing of moving ships wasn't working out very well?


Did anyone ever try equipping the B-17 with torpedoes?


Well, sorta.

http://tinyurl.com/7sr3lmu


Thank you! If this was 1940 than this stuff is huge! It's huge either
way, but wow!


The GT-1 does not seem to have been tested until 1943, so the caption
has to be wrong. The British Toraplane, a similar air launched gliding
torpedo was around in 1940*, but, of course, that would not have been
launched from a B-17.

* Work started in 1939 but was abandoned in 1942, as it proved to be
very inaccurate.

Colin Bignell
  #12  
Old April 6th 12, 10:37 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,alt.history.british
Jim Wilkins[_2_]
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Posts: 52
Default B-17s straffing & IJN Aoba, & UK POWs


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 03/04/2012 17:49, David E. Powell wrote:
On Apr 3, 1:18 am, Bill wrote:
wrote:
So, by then, the B-17 crews had figured out that high altitude
level
bombing of moving ships wasn't working out very well?

Did anyone ever try equipping the B-17 with torpedoes?

Well, sorta.

http://tinyurl.com/7sr3lmu


Thank you! If this was 1940 than this stuff is huge! It's huge
either
way, but wow!


The GT-1 does not seem to have been tested until 1943, so the
caption has to be wrong. The British Toraplane, a similar air
launched gliding torpedo was around in 1940*, but, of course, that
would not have been launched from a B-17.

* Work started in 1939 but was abandoned in 1942, as it proved to be
very inaccurate.

Colin Bignell


A field-expedient PBY torpedo attack from Guadalcanal:
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/cactus/jackcram.htm

jsw


  #13  
Old April 6th 12, 05:09 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,alt.history.british
Gordon[_2_]
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Posts: 57
Default B-17s straffing & IJN Aoba, & UK POWs

On Apr 6, 1:54*am, Nightjar wrote:
On 03/04/2012 17:49, David E. Powell wrote:

On Apr 3, 1:18 am, Bill *wrote:
wrote:
So, by then, the B-17 crews had figured out that high altitude level
bombing of moving ships wasn't working out very well?


Did anyone ever try equipping the B-17 with torpedoes?


Well, sorta.


http://tinyurl.com/7sr3lmu


Thank you! If this was 1940 than this stuff is huge! It's huge either
way, but wow!


The GT-1 does not seem to have been tested until 1943, so the caption
has to be wrong. The British Toraplane, a similar air launched gliding
torpedo was around in 1940*, but, of course, that would not have been
launched from a B-17.

* Work started in 1939 but was abandoned in 1942, as it proved to be
very inaccurate.

Colin Bignell


Similar objects, (encased flying torpedos), were tried on Zeppelin
L-35 (LZ-80) during secret experiments in 1918 at Jueterbog (S. of
Berlin). Accuracy was said to be a problem then as well.
  #14  
Old April 6th 12, 05:19 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,alt.history.british
Gordon[_2_]
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Posts: 57
Default B-17s straffing & IJN Aoba, & UK POWs

On Apr 6, 2:37*am, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message

...









On 03/04/2012 17:49, David E. Powell wrote:
On Apr 3, 1:18 am, Bill *wrote:
wrote:
So, by then, the B-17 crews had figured out that high altitude
level
bombing of moving ships wasn't working out very well?


Did anyone ever try equipping the B-17 with torpedoes?


Well, sorta.


http://tinyurl.com/7sr3lmu


Thank you! If this was 1940 than this stuff is huge! It's huge
either
way, but wow!


The GT-1 does not seem to have been tested until 1943, so the
caption has to be wrong. The British Toraplane, a similar air
launched gliding torpedo was around in 1940*, but, of course, that
would not have been launched from a B-17.


* Work started in 1939 but was abandoned in 1942, as it proved to be
very inaccurate.


Colin Bignell


A field-expedient PBY torpedo attack from Guadalcanal:http://www.daveswarbirds.com/cactus/jackcram.htm


For decades, we had a docent taking tickets at our front desk that
kept a photo nearby of his "Black Cat" following a successful mission
- they were hit on their run and a shell carried away one of their
props, narrowly missing the cockpit as it careened on by with a roar.
Already committed, the pilot got his bombs off and accounted for a
troop ship with his single-engine Catalina. Just a little reminder
that men that go to war in elegant, pedestrian seaplanes are just a
little different than most.
  #15  
Old April 6th 12, 05:50 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,alt.history.british
Jim Wilkins[_2_]
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Posts: 52
Default B-17s straffing & IJN Aoba, & UK POWs


-"Gordon" wrote
-For decades, we had a docent taking tickets at our front desk that
-kept a photo nearby of his "Black Cat" following a successful mission
-- they were hit on their run and a shell carried away one of their
-props, narrowly missing the cockpit as it careened on by with a roar.
-Already committed, the pilot got his bombs off and accounted for a
-troop ship with his single-engine Catalina. Just a little reminder
-that men that go to war in elegant, pedestrian seaplanes are just a
-little different than most.

I'm impressed that they patrolled for reported (MAGIC) enemy carriers,
trusting their lives to their ability to hide from the CAP in whatever
clouds they might find.

jsw


  #16  
Old April 6th 12, 06:59 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,alt.history.british
Gordon[_2_]
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Posts: 57
Default B-17s straffing & IJN Aoba, & UK POWs

On Apr 6, 9:50*am, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
-"Gordon" wrote
-For decades, we had a docent taking tickets at our front desk that
-kept a photo nearby of his "Black Cat" following a successful mission
-- they were hit on their run and a shell carried away one of their
-props, narrowly missing the cockpit as it careened on by with a roar.
-Already committed, the pilot got his bombs off and accounted for a
-troop ship with his single-engine Catalina. *Just a little reminder
-that men that go to war in elegant, pedestrian seaplanes are just a
-little different than most.

I'm impressed that they patrolled for reported (MAGIC) enemy carriers,
trusting their lives to their ability to hide from the CAP in whatever
clouds they might find.


"This is Strawberry Five. Have sighted enemy fleet. Please notify
next of kin."

almost as classic as, "Peccavi."
  #17  
Old April 7th 12, 04:24 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,alt.history.british
Peter Stickney[_2_]
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Posts: 20
Default B-17s straffing & IJN Aoba, & UK POWs

On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 12:50:36 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote:

-"Gordon" wrote -For decades, we had a docent
taking tickets at our front desk that -kept a photo nearby of his "Black
Cat" following a successful mission -- they were hit on their run and a
shell carried away one of their -props, narrowly missing the cockpit as
it careened on by with a roar. -Already committed, the pilot got his
bombs off and accounted for a -troop ship with his single-engine
Catalina. Just a little reminder -that men that go to war in elegant,
pedestrian seaplanes are just a -little different than most.

I'm impressed that they patrolled for reported (MAGIC) enemy carriers,
trusting their lives to their ability to hide from the CAP in whatever
clouds they might find.


The PBY is an amazing beast - I've never been inside one, but I've seen
a couple of them fly.
It's a big airplane - it bulks out about the same as a B-17, with half
as many engines.
It kinda reminds me of a giant Aluminum seagull - optimized to get
the most distance out of a drop of fuel.

The guys that flew them were definitely a special breed - hours upon hours
of searching empty ocean, then instant adrenaline if/when they found something.

--
Pete Stickney
Failure is not an option
It comes bundled with the system
  #18  
Old April 7th 12, 04:27 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,alt.history.british
Ian B MacLure
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Posts: 100
Default B-17s straffing & IJN Aoba, & UK POWs

Gordon wrote in news:26c83642-7103-45c5-a0dc-
:

On Apr 6, 9:50*am, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
-"Gordon" wrote
-For decades, we had a docent taking tickets at our front desk that
-kept a photo nearby of his "Black Cat" following a successful mission
-- they were hit on their run and a shell carried away one of their
-props, narrowly missing the cockpit as it careened on by with a roar.
-Already committed, the pilot got his bombs off and accounted for a
-troop ship with his single-engine Catalina. *Just a little reminder
-that men that go to war in elegant, pedestrian seaplanes are just a
-little different than most.

I'm impressed that they patrolled for reported (MAGIC) enemy carriers,
trusting their lives to their ability to hide from the CAP in whatever
clouds they might find.


"This is Strawberry Five. Have sighted enemy fleet. Please notify
next of kin."

almost as classic as, "Peccavi."


Which is apparently what a teenage girl thought Napier ought
to have said. Peccavi being a Latin announcemnet of the capture
of Sindh in what is now Pakistan. Translates as "I have sinned".

But I digress.

Leonard Birchall certainly had a Strawberry Five experience.

IBM
  #19  
Old April 7th 12, 05:55 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,alt.history.british
Dan[_12_]
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Posts: 451
Default B-17s straffing & IJN Aoba, & UK POWs

On 4/6/2012 10:24 PM, Peter Stickney wrote:
The PBY is an amazing beast - I've never been inside one, but I've seen
a couple of them fly.



If you ever get the chance to go to Pensacola NAS the museum has a
cutaway Catalina fuselage. They may look big on the outside, but they
are crowded inside. Take a look at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shutter...09/4728119350/

If I wanted to make a comparison to B-17, it is cramped inside in
some places and open in other. To give you an idea stroll inside a B-17
from cockpit to aft crew door. The bracing for the bomb bay cat walk
makes one walk sideways even when bombs aren't present. I must admit I
had a bit of a belly last time I did that and it was a tight squeeze.
The waist, nose, cockpit and radio sections of B-17 are fairly roomy.
There are spaces and restrictions in the PBY. The engineer's feet block
the top foot or so of the cockpit door. If you want to open the blisters
you do so on your knees. Neither was built for luxury, but both had
character.

Plan on taking a full day at the museum if you go. The displays are
jammed together so photography can be a bit tricky.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired



  #20  
Old April 7th 12, 01:36 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,alt.history.british
Jim Wilkins[_2_]
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Posts: 52
Default B-17s straffing & IJN Aoba, & UK POWs

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...
...
The PBY is an amazing beast - I've never been inside one, but I've
seen
a couple of them fly.
It's a big airplane - it bulks out about the same as a B-17, with
half
as many engines....
Pete Stickney


The only one I was able to examine closely (at MHT) was IIRC a partly
restored former houseboat that had received the amphibian conversion
and a rear door after the war with whatever parts were available. It
was far from a museum-quality original.

I didn't know in advance how many rare classics would be at that
airshow so I took my pre-war Leica instead of the SLR and couldn't
capture interior detail.

jsw


 




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