Crashing on takeoff... how odd

Peter R. wrote:

While they tend to be, there are exceptions. The Buffalo, NY, airport's
beacon is almost impossible to see at night, at least when coming in from
the east.

HFD is similar from certain directions and altitudes. The beacon gets
totally lost in Hartford's city lights, and the nearby interstate
highways and bridges make it hard to make out shapes of runways.

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Roy Smith wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote:

It isn't that hard to overcome the trim on a 172. There are probably
airplanes where this isn't the case, but the 172 isn't one of them.


In theory, it should be possible on any plane. 14 CFR 23.677 (d) says:

"It must be demonstrated that the airplane is safely controllable and
that the pilot can perform all maneuvers and operations necessary to
effect a safe landing following any probable powered trim system runaway
that reasonably might be expected in service, allowing for appropriate
time delay after pilot recognition of the trim system runaway. The
demonstration must be conducted at critical airplane weights and center
of gravity positions."

Like they say, in theory there is no difference between theory and
practice, in practice there is. :-)

I've never flown an airplane where this wasn't the case, but then I've
flown fewer than a dozen different airplanes so I was hesitant to say all.


In the Lear 24B, this would be a very close thing. In a normal landing,
the trim is run almost completely nose up. An attempted departure at this
setting will get an extreme pitch up starting at about 80 knots, with little
warning in advance. It is possible to control the aircraft, but you will be
pushing with more than 50lbs. Depending on the airspeed you let build, it
may take both pilots. Obviously retrimming is your first option, but if you
departed with the electric trim inop or shut off(there is a switch),
retarding the throttles or a very steep bank are your only options to
maintain control. There is no manual trim wheel. The requirement for trim is
massive as speed builds, which it does very quickly.

Al G

With us familiarization flights were only required into special fields that
presented real problems if the pilot was not fully aware of them. If they
could be programmed into the flight simulator it was done there.

--
Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: (see below)
http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 122...
john smith wrote
All aircarriers are required to fly prescribed familiarization flights
into and out of any airport they intend to serve several times without
passengers before they begin passenger service. (There is a term for
it, but old age prevents me from recalling what it is.)

PROVING FLIGHTS....but that does not include ALL Pilots.

Bob Moore
PanAm (retired)

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Montblack" wrote:

Aren't all airline pilots required to operate from the field before
they
carry passengers from it?

I've never heard of this before.

All aircarriers are required to fly prescribed familiarization flights
into and out of any airport they intend to serve several times without
passengers before they begin passenger service. (There is a term for it,
but old age prevents me from recalling what it is.)

Route check.

Al G

There is no manual trim wheel [on the Lear 24B].

Wow. I thought all planes had manual trim wheels. Personally I turn
electric trim off on my spam can when I fly - I much prefer the control
I get from manual trim, though I see that the speed of electric trim can
come in handy on a takeoff if you're not trimmed right.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
There is no manual trim wheel [on the Lear 24B].

Wow. I thought all planes had manual trim wheels. Personally I turn
electric trim off on my spam can when I fly - I much prefer the control
I get from manual trim, though I see that the speed of electric trim can
come in handy on a takeoff if you're not trimmed right.

Jose

Glad I'm not the only one. I always feel like I can't control it as
well as with manual.