Crashing on takeoff... how odd

Matt Whiting wrote:



I certainly always appreciate when ATC catches a mistake that I make or
am about to make, but as PIC the bottom line is that it is still my
responsibility for any errors, not ATC's.

Jets take a long time to take off so if he used the wrong runway the
question will certainly arise as to what the tower controller was
looking at. My guess is the coffee pot. The controller would have had
about 1 minute after issuing the clearance to notice that he was using
the wrong runway. And looking at the airport diagram this would be an
area well known to controllers for aircraft using the wrong runway. We
have one here at BIL. Ask for a certain intersection and don't turn all
the way onto the runway and you are using the last 700 feet of another
runway. We've had one crash, one near crash and a bunch of aborts from
pilots who weren't paying attention.

Newps wrote:
.... And looking at the airport diagram this would be an
area well known to controllers for aircraft using the wrong runway. We
have one here at BIL. Ask for a certain intersection and don't turn all
the way onto the runway and you are using the last 700 feet of another
runway. We've had one crash, one near crash and a bunch of aborts from
pilots who weren't paying attention.

Foxtrot onto 7 instead of 10? Ouch!!

B A R R Y wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:44:36 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Perhaps they did, and when they found the 40 degree error they reset the
gyro to correct the discrepancy.

Well, that would also be a mistake as that isn't the proper reference
for the DG.


I agree with you, Matt, but I'll bet what Steven posted happens more
than we'd all like to admit.

Shouldn't we really check the compass instead of the DG? But, I must
admit, I check the DG against the runway heading. I think I'm going to
straighten up and fly right from now on.

"Greg Farris" wrote

Say that to the 130 souls who perished in the B-707 accident on takeoff
from
Paris' Orly airport, due to an out-of-trim condition.

It is really easy to sit back and say that the accident was easily
preventable, but in truth, it probably was easily preventable.

Problem number one, in the chain of the accident events, was the failure of
the trim motor.

Number two, was the failure of the flight crew to recognize that the trim
was not in the correct place.

Number three, and the final link in the chain, was the failure of the flight
crew to continue with the takeoff, when there was insufficient distance in
which to stop the aircraft.

If the takeoff had continued, the certification standards say that a
successful takeoff was still possible. In a fraction of a second, the
flight crew made the wrong choice, because there was not enough distance
remaining to successfully abort the takeoff.

They, and their charges, paid for the mistake with their lives. The final
link in the chain was not broken. Sad, but mistakes (pilot error) still
happen.
--
Jim in NC

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message news:UunIg.769

I can certainly see how one could taxi to the wrong runway and even line
up on it. But taking off on it is inexcusable.


Well, that would also be a mistake ......

A few things I learned in the past 35 years are A) there are at least 2,
and sometimes 3+ sides to every story; B) any mistake that can possibly be
made, will eventually be made; and C) anyone who's ever flown
professionally will never make absolute statements about a recent accident.

Under the principle of res ipsa loquitur, its clear that 1 or more mistakes
were made in this event. We now have a very rare opportunity to evaluate,
in that the FO has survived, hopefully to shed light on the crew's thought
process and decision making immediately pre-takeoff.

skym wrote:

Newps wrote:
... And looking at the airport diagram this would be an

area well known to controllers for aircraft using the wrong runway. We
have one here at BIL. Ask for a certain intersection and don't turn all
the way onto the runway and you are using the last 700 feet of another
runway. We've had one crash, one near crash and a bunch of aborts from
pilots who weren't paying attention.


Foxtrot onto 7 instead of 10? Ouch!!


Yep, a Cessna or Bonanza will make it, yer ground loving Mooney's are
**** out of luck.

B A R R Y wrote:

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:44:36 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:


Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Perhaps they did, and when they found the 40 degree error they reset the
gyro to correct the discrepancy.

Well, that would also be a mistake as that isn't the proper reference
for the DG.



I agree with you, Matt, but I'll bet what Steven posted happens more
than we'd all like to admit.

No doubt. Lots of mistakes happen more than we'd like to admit! That
is why we still have as many preventable accidents as we do.

Matt

skym wrote:

B A R R Y wrote:

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:44:36 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:


Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Perhaps they did, and when they found the 40 degree error they reset the
gyro to correct the discrepancy.

Well, that would also be a mistake as that isn't the proper reference
for the DG.


I agree with you, Matt, but I'll bet what Steven posted happens more
than we'd all like to admit.


Shouldn't we really check the compass instead of the DG? But, I must
admit, I check the DG against the runway heading. I think I'm going to
straighten up and fly right from now on.

I was taught to look from top to bottom. Compass, DG, runway number I
wrote on my lapboard when I received my taxi clearance. If they all
aren't the same, then time to stop and sort things out.

Matt

Fatalities Accidents/hull loss
Takeoff 27% 17%
Landing 15% 52%

Thus there is a much lower risk of getting into an accident on takeoff,
but takeoff accidents result in a higher rate of fatalities.

Though my two accidents followed landings, there have been a couple
takeoffs that scared me far more than any landings.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Well, that would also be a mistake as that isn't the proper reference for
the DG.


Perhaps, but it's one that many use and it works quite well if you know the
magnetic azimuth of the runway.