Get Rid Of Warbirds At Oshkosh

"Bob Martin" wrote in message
...
Peter Duniho wrote:
"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
[...]
Warbirds, you are not welcome at Oshkosh.

We've all got our pet peeves when it comes to other pilots. Around here,
where we don't see warbirds on a regular basis during daily flying, it's
the RV "squadron" who do high-speed, low passes down Lake Sammamish, or
the Mustang replica pilot who does his "overhead break" to a landing at
the airport, or any number of other pilots doing stupid pilot tricks.


How is an overhead break a "stupid pilot trick?"

Then again, maybe we should clarify some terms. My interpretation of
overhead break means entering an upwind over the runway, then flying a
tight pattern from there, usually involving a tight turn from upwind to
cross-/downwind. The rest of the approach is flown as normal. I've been
watching an F-15 squadron fly overhead breaks in SAV for a month. Nothing
looks unsafe about it. We fly the same kind of break when we come back
from some formation work. I do this as an alternative to a straight-in
landing, especially if there is other traffic. As long as you announce
what you're doing there shouldn't be a problem... unless you consider
formation flight or patterns smaller than a mile on a side to be
inherently dangerous.

An approach flown from an initial overhead break has a practical side as
well. In the P51 for example, flying a regular pattern with reduced manifold
pressure can really foul up the plugs on you.
An overhead approach allows a tight in circular pattern that can be flown
with the power up in the range that keeps the plugs clean; allows for better
visibility, and allows for easier positioning without losing the runway
under the nose.
This doesn't mean that pilots flying high performance airplanes should
arbitrarily use these approaches without prior approval or radio contact to
clear first. It just means that in high performance airplanes, this type of
approach is requested for practical reasons by practical pilots who know
exactly what they are doing and have no wish to be showing off or violating
anyone's airspace.
Dudley Henriques
Ex P51 pilot........among others :-))

".Blueskies." wrote in message
...

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...
:
: "Jim Macklin" wrote in message
: news:E1fzg.84679$ZW3.47978@dukeread04...
: I like warbirds, an airshow without warbirds is like no
: airshow at all.
:
: And the money for the fuel they receive comes from the Warbirds division
not
: from the EAA as some believe.
:
:

Warbirds division of what? Who is paying for the gas?


Go to the EAA site and educate yourself.

("john smith" wrote)
Looks like Pope Paul has been replaced by Lord jim.

That has potential!


Read the fine print.

*Must be present to win.


Montblack :-)

"JJS" jschneider@remove socks cebridge.net wrote

David, You guys will probably catch a lot of flack over the Avenger - RV
accident. I for one appreciate the job you
do every year. Please do not be too hard on yourselves.

I could be wrong, but I think that his guy's responsibility pretty much ends
when the pilot gets on his way on the taxiway. At an intersection, if there
is a problem, it could be his problem.

I agree, about them doing a great job. I do think there needs to be
something done in response to this, and not just telling everyone to be more
careful. What about escorts for each and every taildragger the whole time
they are moving, all the way from chocks out to turn on to the active for
takeoff?

It would take some more bikes, but I'll bet you could find plenty of
volunteers to ride bikes around.
--
Jim in NC

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 22:44:32 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

I like warbirds, an airshow without warbirds is like no
airshow at all.

When I go I go to see the high performance home builts and the war
bird. To me one is as important as the other when I go. Different
interests and I serously doubt I'll be building a warbird, but
still...

If you can't count rivets it ain't close.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Jarhead,

I read where the Germans emphasized sailplanes


Because powered planes were not allowed by the Versailles Treaty.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Gatt,

I agree with you.

It's the new
Cessna....

There was no new Cessna. There was a "proof of concept". Google
"vaporware"...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Ah, treaties, they make the world safe from war.

Washington Naval Conference
Any thing signed by Russia or Germany or Japan before WWII
and many things since.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Thomas Borchert" wrote in
message ...
| Jarhead,
|
| I read where the Germans emphasized sailplanes
|
|
| Because powered planes were not allowed by the Versailles
Treaty.
|
| --
| Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
|

"Bob Martin" wrote in message
...
How is an overhead break a "stupid pilot trick?"

The people I've seen do it around here start with a high-speed, relatively
low pass (though not 10 feet off the deck...more like 200-500') and then
enter the proper traffic pattern with a climbing turn directly into the
downwind.

I realize that there are practical issues that are addressed by flying an
abbreviated pattern starting with an over-the-runway upwind. However, even
doing that starting at pattern altitude is not appropriate at a busy public
airport, and when executed as a chandelle it's even more inappropriate (and
dangerous).

As far as using the maneuver as "an alternative to a straight-in", I fail to
see how it would be better than a straight-in, especially if there is other
traffic. You spend more time in the pattern than you would with a
straight-in, and you do at least part of it in a location where the other
pilots in the pattern are less likely to be expecting you.

As far as "As long as you announce what you're doing there shouldn't be a
problem" goes, that's the classic "everyone has a radio" fallacy. The radio
is NOT a replacement for good traffic pattern usage.

Pete

And just out of curiosity, were there any ground marshallers along the
taxiway to help keep traffic from getting too close and keeping an eye
on things? We all know forward visibility is very poor on most warbirds
and it seems like they should have an escort from a guy on a scooter to
be a set of "remote eyes". Just a thought.

Scott


Kyle Boatright wrote:
"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...

snip

Warbirds, you are not welcome at Oshkosh.

Jim


To me, the warbirds are very welcome, as is everyone else until all the
parking fills up. What happened yesterday was simple pilot error, and could
have been avoided by taking more preventative measures. One idea would be
to let groups of warbirds depart once an hour. If you fly a warbird and
have it fired up and ready to taxi at 0:10 before the hour, you get to
depart with the group of warbirds that leaves on the hour. Yep, it'll be an
inconvenience to some, but if everyone knows the procedures, it won't be the
nightmare of mixing the warbirds with the spam. As someone who flies an RV,
I don't like taxiing and departing with warbirds or jets. The warbirds leave
a fair amount of wake turbulence if you're following one, and have the nasty
combination of a big prop and poor visibility. Taxiing behind a jet (I got
stuck behind one for 20 minutes yesterday) is miserable. Even if you're 50
or 100 yards back, your airplane rocks back and forth due to the jet blast
and it smells like you've stuck your head inside a kerosene heater for the
entire time.

As far as obnoxious warbird flyers go, there are plenty of other people who
are just as obnoxious. A pet peeve of mine is the guys doing formation work
(frequently RV's, but I've seen it done in everything from ultralights on
up) who don't think twice about doing a 4 ship overhead break without much
regard for other aircraft in the pattern. The attitude seems to be similar
to the warbird guys - announce what you're going to do and expect everyone
else to adapt.

KB