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#41
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But the Republicans have no more qualms about handouts to big business
than they have permitting oil drilling, logging, and mining in 1/3 of our national forests as occurred last week. I do not see that Democrat/Republican has anything to do with this discussion. -- Mike Flyin'8 PP-ASEL Temecula, CA http://flying.4alexanders.com |
#42
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Larry Dighera wrote:
they have permitting oil drilling, logging, and mining in 1/3 of our national forests as occurred last week. Dilling, logging, and mining have *always* been permitted in the National Forests. Much of the land there is private, also. George Patterson There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the mashed potatoes. |
#43
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"George Patterson" wrote in message news:IbQfe.4074$7G.487@trndny01... Larry Dighera wrote: they have permitting oil drilling, logging, and mining in 1/3 of our national forests as occurred last week. Dilling, logging, and mining have *always* been permitted in the National Forests. Much of the land there is private, also. George Patterson There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the mashed potatoes. Much of the land in National Forests is private? Mike MU-2 |
#44
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
... [...] We'll wind up being banned from major airports *and* have to pay user fees on top of that. With the landing fees currently in effect at many large metro' airports, GA is already effectively banned from their use. Really? What's a "typical" landing fee at the airports you describe? I haven't flown into the largest Class B airports in the US, but I've flown into a couple of the smaller ones. Landing fees generally seem to run around $50-100. Expensive, but not an insurmountable barrier. Someone in a Cub would surely find that outrageous, but for those of us flying high-performance aircraft long distances, an extra $50-100 isn't intolerable, assuming there's a good reason to land at such an airport. Are there airports with GA landing fees significantly higher than that? Pete |
#45
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Mike Rapoport wrote:
Much of the land in National Forests is private? Privately owned. Yes. George Patterson There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the mashed potatoes. |
#46
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"Peter Duniho" wrote in
: "Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... [...] We'll wind up being banned from major airports *and* have to pay user fees on top of that. With the landing fees currently in effect at many large metro' airports, GA is already effectively banned from their use. Really? What's a "typical" landing fee at the airports you describe? I haven't flown into the largest Class B airports in the US, but I've flown into a couple of the smaller ones. Landing fees generally seem to run around $50-100. Expensive, but not an insurmountable barrier. Someone in a Cub would surely find that outrageous, but for those of us flying high-performance aircraft long distances, an extra $50-100 isn't intolerable, assuming there's a good reason to land at such an airport. Are there airports with GA landing fees significantly higher than that? Pete It is NOT just the landing fees which can eat you alive. Many larger airports (even class C) have a ramp fee. Some airports impose these ramp fees even if you just drop/off or pick up a passenger. I did an Angel Flight into SFO almost 3 years ago in an Arrow. The landing fee was $74 and the minimum ramp fee was $33. IIRC, the ramp fee was good for only 8 hours and then was something like $6 per hour after that. Both fees were waived for Angel Flight. -- Marty Shapiro Silicon Rallye Inc. (remove SPAMNOT to email me) |
#47
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In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote: The National Airspace System, being a nationwide resource, should be government operated. For the government to abdicate responsibility for our skies to corporate interests is irresponsible. But the Republicans have no more qualms about handouts to big business than they have permitting oil drilling, logging, and mining in 1/3 of our national forests as occurred last week. I suspect that there were many more Democrats pandering to big business that Republicans over the last 50 years. The bottom line is that politicians pander to those with the money, and big business donates to whomever is in power, or has a good shot of gaining power, in the hopes that they will be rewarded with kickbacks. It usually works. The last time I looked, the combined wealth of the Democrats in the US Congress exceeded that of the Republicans, but that's pretty much irrelevant other than to dispel the myth that Republicans are rich and Democrats are for the "middle class." I'm all for using all of our natural resources, as long as they are open to competition. The entire issue of "public" and "private" with regards to aviation plays out on a much smaller scale at the local airport. More communities seem to be forming "airport authority" boards which are basically controlled by commercial interests. The commercial interests take over the administration of the airport, jack the rates up, slap on some new restrictions intended to stifle the small guy who doesn't bring in huge margins, and all of a sudden you have a declining light plane population at an airport that was intended to be a public resource. Usually, this is done in the name of "jobs for the region" or some such nonsense that doesn't materialize. I'm sure there are success stories, but I suspect that there are many more failures. JKG |
#48
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"Marty Shapiro" wrote in message
... It is NOT just the landing fees which can eat you alive. Many larger airports (even class C) have a ramp fee. Some airports impose these ramp fees even if you just drop/off or pick up a passenger. True. And I am aware of the other fees. Still, even for SFO the total cost only comes to a little over $100. Assuming one has a good reason for wanting to land there as opposed to one of the other nearby airports, the $100 doesn't seem prohibitive to me. I flew into Oakland a couple of years ago, to stay downtown in San Francisco. Between the FBO's shuttle and public transportation (train), it wasn't terrible, but we DID take a cab back, and I could easily see someone deciding it was worth $100 if their destination was more convenient to SFO than OAK. What I'm wondering if is there are actually airports who charge as much as $250-$500 for light GA aircraft (which I *would* consider prohibitive). Pete |
#49
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"Peter Duniho" wrote in
: "Marty Shapiro" wrote in message ... It is NOT just the landing fees which can eat you alive. Many larger airports (even class C) have a ramp fee. Some airports impose these ramp fees even if you just drop/off or pick up a passenger. True. And I am aware of the other fees. Still, even for SFO the total cost only comes to a little over $100. Assuming one has a good reason for wanting to land there as opposed to one of the other nearby airports, the $100 doesn't seem prohibitive to me. I flew into Oakland a couple of years ago, to stay downtown in San Francisco. Between the FBO's shuttle and public transportation (train), it wasn't terrible, but we DID take a cab back, and I could easily see someone deciding it was worth $100 if their destination was more convenient to SFO than OAK. What I'm wondering if is there are actually airports who charge as much as $250-$500 for light GA aircraft (which I *would* consider prohibitive). Pete The actual cost for a stay of more than a few hours at SFO is far more than $100. The $103 only covers the first 8 hours at SFO. Each hour after that would have cost $6. Your costs for one full day's parking + landing fee would have been $203. Add $144 for each additional full day. I think you will agree this reaches your "prohibitive" numbers pretty quickly. Did you buy fuel? Currently, 100LL is $1.22 per gallon more at SFO than at OAK, comparing full-serve to full-serve. For a comparison, I looked at The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey's web pages. The current charge to land at JFK, LGA, or EWR for a small aircraft is only $25.00 but there is a $100 surcharge if you land OR takeoff between 8 AM and 9 PM at LGA, 3 PM and 10 PM at JFK, and 8 to 10 AM or 5 to 10 PM at EWR. Public ramp parking is $25 per 8 hours. -- Marty Shapiro Silicon Rallye Inc. (remove SPAMNOT to email me) |
#50
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On Mon, 9 May 2005 16:30:59 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in :: "Larry Dighera" wrote in message .. . [...] We'll wind up being banned from major airports *and* have to pay user fees on top of that. With the landing fees currently in effect at many large metro' airports, GA is already effectively banned from their use. Really? What's a "typical" landing fee at the airports you describe? I haven't flown into the largest Class B airports in the US, but I've flown into a couple of the smaller ones. Landing fees generally seem to run around $50-100. Expensive, but not an insurmountable barrier. Someone in a Cub would surely find that outrageous, but for those of us flying high-performance aircraft long distances, an extra $50-100 isn't intolerable, assuming there's a good reason to land at such an airport. I understand your feelings about landing fees. It is a subjective judgment after all. Are there airports with GA landing fees significantly higher than that? You'll find some information about landing fees at these links: http://www.dot.state.ak.us/faiiap/pdfs/feesched.pdf#search='airport%20landing%20fee%20sch edule' http://web.nbaa.org/public/news/pr/2...050106-001.php http://www.flywichita.org/pdf/FeeChargesSchedule.pdf#search='airport%20landing%2 0fee%20schedule' http://www.yxe.ca/about/pdf/Fees.pdf http://www.ci.palm-springs.ca.us/city_clerk/2004%20COMP%20FEE%20SCH.pdf#search='airport%20land ing%20fee%20schedule' http://www.portseattle.org/downloads...Tariff2-04.doc More he http://search.yahoo.com/search?_adv_...=i &fl=0&n=10 |
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