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Radio protocol regarding full stops on full stop only nights



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 1st 05, 11:04 PM
Ben Hallert
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Default Radio protocol regarding full stops on full stop only nights

Hi guys,

I was doing closed traffic at an unnamed airport with a 'No touch &
goes at night' rule. On downwind, I made the following call (because I
am aware of the rule) "XXX ground, Cherokee 1234 Sierra on downwind,
request full stop."

The tower responds back "Touch and goes are prohibited at night!
Cherokee 1234 Sierra, cleared for full stop ONLY!"

I had my instructor with me, and he said my call was fine. Was the
tower being jerky? Or was there a better call I could have made? I
knew about the rule, that's why I explicitly asked for full stop, but
the tower acted like I had just soiled myself in public.

I'm not too worried, just curious to hear what other people have
done/would do in the same situation. Also, if there's a technically
better call I can make, I'm all ears.

Ads
  #2  
Old February 1st 05, 11:13 PM
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Default


Ben Hallert wrote:
snip
I'm not too worried, just curious to hear what other people have
done/would do in the same situation. Also, if there's a technically
better call I can make, I'm all ears.


I think the tower was probably being a little jerky about it. I could
understand it if you'd asked for a touch an go, but apparently
mentioning that you want a full stop when that's all that is available
confused him.

Better call? Well, if both you and the tower know that a full stop
is imminent, don't mention it at all. Just tell him you're on downwind
and he should respond with a landing clearance.
John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

  #3  
Old February 1st 05, 11:32 PM
Bob Gardner
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I agree with jgalban...why did you mention it?

Bob Gardner

"Ben Hallert" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi guys,

I was doing closed traffic at an unnamed airport with a 'No touch &
goes at night' rule. On downwind, I made the following call (because I
am aware of the rule) "XXX ground, Cherokee 1234 Sierra on downwind,
request full stop."

The tower responds back "Touch and goes are prohibited at night!
Cherokee 1234 Sierra, cleared for full stop ONLY!"

I had my instructor with me, and he said my call was fine. Was the
tower being jerky? Or was there a better call I could have made? I
knew about the rule, that's why I explicitly asked for full stop, but
the tower acted like I had just soiled myself in public.

I'm not too worried, just curious to hear what other people have
done/would do in the same situation. Also, if there's a technically
better call I can make, I'm all ears.



  #4  
Old February 1st 05, 11:34 PM
Jose
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Posts: n/a
Default

On downwind, I made the following call (because I
am aware of the rule) "XXX ground, Cherokee 1234 Sierra on downwind,
request full stop."

The tower responds back "Touch and goes are prohibited at night!
Cherokee 1234 Sierra, cleared for full stop ONLY!"

Was the
tower being jerky?



I doubt it. If in doubt, clarify. The tower may have been in doubt,
perhaps because they were used to "the option", it was a day
controller, or (ironically) the fact that you were explicit set of an
alarm bell in the controller's mind which prevented him (or her) from
processing what you actually said.

I would have just responded "roger, full stop" and let it go.

Jose
--
Money: What you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #5  
Old February 1st 05, 11:34 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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Default


"Ben Hallert" wrote in message
oups.com...

I was doing closed traffic at an unnamed airport with a 'No touch &
goes at night' rule.


Was it night at the time?



On downwind, I made the following call (because I
am aware of the rule) "XXX ground, Cherokee 1234 Sierra on downwind,
request full stop."

The tower responds back "Touch and goes are prohibited at night!
Cherokee 1234 Sierra, cleared for full stop ONLY!"

I had my instructor with me, and he said my call was fine. Was the
tower being jerky? Or was there a better call I could have made? I
knew about the rule, that's why I explicitly asked for full stop, but
the tower acted like I had just soiled myself in public.

I'm not too worried, just curious to hear what other people have
done/would do in the same situation. Also, if there's a technically
better call I can make, I'm all ears.



  #6  
Old February 1st 05, 11:57 PM
Larry Dighera
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Default

On 1 Feb 2005 14:04:21 -0800, "Ben Hallert"
wrote in .com::

I was doing closed traffic at an unnamed airport with a 'No touch &
goes at night' rule. On downwind, I made the following call (because I
am aware of the rule) "XXX ground, Cherokee 1234 Sierra on downwind,
request full stop."

The tower responds back "Touch and goes are prohibited at night!
Cherokee 1234 Sierra, cleared for full stop ONLY!"

I had my instructor with me, and he said my call was fine.


I would agree with him, if you had called the tower instead of ground
control.

Was the tower being jerky?


Not really. They were just getting the word out in case you might be
unaware of the policy, IMO.

Or was there a better call I could have made?


There was no reason to _request_ a full stop. You are the PIC; you
tell ATC what your intentions are.

I'd have said, "XXX tower, Cherokee 34 Sierra, full stop."

I knew about the rule, that's why I explicitly asked for full stop, but
the tower acted like I had just soiled myself in public.


They may have thought your calling them "tower" and your use of
"request" meant you may not be aware of the full stop at night policy.

I'm not too worried, just curious to hear what other people have
done/would do in the same situation.


Why would you be worried? We pilots and ATC personnel all have the
same goal: safe operations. ATC isn't there to enforce regulations.

Also, if there's a technically better call I can make, I'm all ears.


As a student, you did fine. If you want to sharpen your radio
technique a bit, and become more comfortable with ATC communications,
let me respectfully suggest Bob Gardener's book "Say Again, Please."

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846
  #7  
Old February 2nd 05, 12:16 AM
Daniel L. Lieberman
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Default

I agree with the other comments but perhaps you should have requested a
"Stop and Go". The controller may have had a brain fart and not realized
what you wanted.

"Ben Hallert" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi guys,

I was doing closed traffic at an unnamed airport with a 'No touch &
goes at night' rule. On downwind, I made the following call (because I
am aware of the rule) "XXX ground, Cherokee 1234 Sierra on downwind,
request full stop."

The tower responds back "Touch and goes are prohibited at night!
Cherokee 1234 Sierra, cleared for full stop ONLY!"

I had my instructor with me, and he said my call was fine. Was the
tower being jerky? Or was there a better call I could have made? I
knew about the rule, that's why I explicitly asked for full stop, but
the tower acted like I had just soiled myself in public.

I'm not too worried, just curious to hear what other people have
done/would do in the same situation. Also, if there's a technically
better call I can make, I'm all ears.




  #8  
Old February 2nd 05, 01:08 AM
Doug Carter
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Default

Daniel L. Lieberman wrote:
... The controller may have had a brain fart ...


I keep hearing this term "brain fart." Is this a product of butt heads?
  #9  
Old February 2nd 05, 01:32 AM
Jay Somerset
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The proper request would have been for a "stop & go".

On 1 Feb 2005 14:04:21 -0800, "Ben Hallert" wrote:

Hi guys,

I was doing closed traffic at an unnamed airport with a 'No touch &
goes at night' rule. On downwind, I made the following call (because I
am aware of the rule) "XXX ground, Cherokee 1234 Sierra on downwind,
request full stop."

The tower responds back "Touch and goes are prohibited at night!
Cherokee 1234 Sierra, cleared for full stop ONLY!"

I had my instructor with me, and he said my call was fine. Was the
tower being jerky? Or was there a better call I could have made? I
knew about the rule, that's why I explicitly asked for full stop, but
the tower acted like I had just soiled myself in public.

I'm not too worried, just curious to hear what other people have
done/would do in the same situation. Also, if there's a technically
better call I can make, I'm all ears.


--
Jay.
(remove dashes for legal email address)
  #10  
Old February 2nd 05, 01:40 AM
Steven P. McNicoll
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Default


"Jay Somerset" wrote in message
...

The proper request would have been for a "stop & go".


What airport prohibits touch and goes but allows stop and goes?


 




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