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#11
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On Nov 7, 1:41*pm, Tony wrote:
On Nov 7, 3:33*pm, Bill D wrote: On Nov 7, 12:58*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote: On Nov 7, 10:42*am, wrote: On Nov 7, 1:07*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote: There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the turn to base or final. Thoughts? Matt I disagree. A slipping turn can be very useful. They are not inherrently unsafe, unlike a skidding turn which is very unsafe. UH One could argue that coming out of a slipping turn is the same as skidding momentarily. *The inside wing slows down and runs the risk of stalling. *But I think we are getting caught up in the nuances. *I also agree a bit of yarn works, if you are paying attention, but there are a lot of things that may demand more attention in pattern. *Many of them quite unpredictable. *People spin in. *That we can all agree on. *Staying coordinated and fast enough would prevent it. *Hopefully we can agree on that. *The question is, is there any value in another indication that we are uncoordinated? A simple implementation would be just two pressure ports on the sides of the nose connected together with a reed noisemaker. *In a skid or slip, the pressure difference would set off the reed reminding the pilot to pay attention to business. see youtube for multiple videos of pilots landing apparently accidentally gear up with gear warning horns blaring... "what is that noise?????" Yes, bells and whistles only work if you are suspecting something is wrong. There is that story of the pilot who just fixed his gear alarm, and when the gear alarm went on the next time he flew, he noted to himself 'great, the gear alarm is finally working' and proceeded to land gear up... Yaw alarm can only be useful if it will be triggered only when skidding, not slipping, otherwise it will be ignored quickly due to false alarms. Ramy |
#12
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
pilot skids a turn in the pattern - skid alarm goes off and they'll
raise the gear. |
#13
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On 11/7/2011 10:07 AM, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. This is almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. Many of us go through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip Alarm" be at least as useful? Setting aside how it might be implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), I can imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and might or might not take into account IAS. It would simply give a distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. Yes, we slip on final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the turn to base or final. I'm thinking going too slow is the bigger problem than slipping or skidding in the pattern. I know I can make a slow, coordinated turn that very quickly turns into a spin or spiral dive (it has to be a shallow turn, the kind we worry about). How about a horizon sensor that proclaims "nose down, nose down, ..." They make sensors like that for R/C models. http://www.futaba-rc.com/accessories/futm0999.html -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) |
#14
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
I've often thought an audio yaw string would be a great idea.
Especially while instructing. Maybe instead of a noise, a shot of electricity to the ass would be better? I am always amazed at how many pilots are perfectly happy to fly along in a slight slip all day... Boggs |
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On Nov 8, 9:44*am, GARY BOGGS wrote:
I've often thought an audio yaw string would be a great idea. Especially while instructing. *Maybe instead of a noise, a shot of electricity to the ass would be better? *I am always amazed at how many pilots are perfectly happy to fly along in a slight slip all day... Boggs Part of me wonders just how much value it would add to have an alarm go off just when someone is under stress turning to final at low altitude where it's causing them to try to skid the ship around. I'd be stating the obvious that pilots should be better trained to not get themselves into such situations to begin with. |
#16
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
At 15:44 08 November 2011, GARY BOGGS wrote:
I've often thought an audio yaw string would be a great idea. Especially while instructing. Maybe instead of a noise, a shot of electricity to the ass would be better? I am always amazed at how many pilots are perfectly happy to fly along in a slight slip all day... Boggs There are those who think the string should be slightly off center in a thermal turn I have heard the phrasae" get the string pointing up"from an old bold pilot who was flying with me. |
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On Nov 8, 11:00*am, Jonathon May wrote:
At 15:44 08 November 2011, GARY BOGGS wrote: I've often thought an audio yaw string would be a great idea. Especially while instructing. *Maybe instead of a noise, a shot of electricity to the ass would be better? *I am always amazed at how many pilots are perfectly happy to fly along in a slight slip all day... Boggs There are those who think the string should be slightly off center in a thermal turn I have heard the phrasae" get the string pointing up"from an old bold pilot who was flying with me. Geez, how about a box that starts yelling (think schrewish obnoxious voice here) DON'T SKID!, SPEED UP!, BANK STEEPER!, WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!!! when you get below 500'... Seriously, it's really all about angle of attack (again). Repeating myself, I loved the aural AOA tones in the old F-4; you could fly the whole pattern to touchdown without ever looking at airspeed just by listening to the varying AOA tone (and pretty much had to from the back seat due to the abysmal visibilty and placement of the intruments). We are used to listening to tones when thermalling - hook up an AOA sensor to a tone generator, active only with the gear down and/or spoilers open, and vary the tone based on AOA - lift tones for too fast, no tone for on speed (with a deadband), sink tones (LOUD) when too slow. Since it would be based on AOA, it would automatically adjust for varying gross weight. If you want to be really exotic, enable a manual wind input to move the on-speed deadband faster so you can set you pattern speed for winds and gusts... Or, JUST FLY THE STUPID GLIDER and let Darwin sort it out! Kirk 66 PS: I'm one of those who thermal with a bit of a slip. Dick Johnson did too. Works for me in my LS6. |
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On Nov 7, 10:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the turn to base or final. Thoughts? Matt How about a sticky note on the instrument panel that say's.............Hey You, don't make any slow uncoordinated turns from base to final...........OK? Brad |
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On 11-8-2011 16:45, Westbender wrote:
Part of me wonders just how much value it would add to have an alarm go off just when someone is under stress turning to final at low altitude where it's causing them to try to skid the ship around. I'd be stating the obvious that pilots should be better trained to not get themselves into such situations to begin with. Well, us powered jockies have an advantage over glider jockies...if the approach is crappy, add power and go around and give it another go (as many times as necessary to get it right. Until we ourselves become glider pilots after too many go arounds!) |
#20
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On 11-8-2011 17:00, Jonathon May wrote:
There are those who think the string should be slightly off center in a thermal turn I have heard the phrasae" get the string pointing up"from an old bold pilot who was flying with me. I was taught there weren't any of those guys around |
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