The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistantJunior XC program. Why?

On Sunday, September 27, 2015 at 8:46:25 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, September 27, 2015 at 7:39:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, September 27, 2015 at 11:44:16 AM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
I know a 19 y.o. PPL-Glider/SEL in NE USA that wants to connect with people around his age who're interested in XC soaring. Suggestions?

He's currently in school for an aviation career.

NE USA is a very big place. Where is this person located?
UH

He's going to school in Burlington VT and flies at Sugarbush, but all our pilots are a bit younger or a lot older. We are bringing him along but he'd like to connect with other Juniors on the internet, text etc., maybe start flying in Condor with other Juniors, get the inside scoop from another Junior who's a few years in. PM me contacts if they don't want to be posted to RAS.

give him mine too: brayera at gmail dot com

Some insight from a British leader. The USA has a long, long way to go...

"Hi Sean
Saw your posts on the above subject and thought I would try to flesh it out a bit.
I was lucky enough to be involved with the UK Junior Nats this year, as I was ******************** in the Regionals that was held alongside the Juniors. We had the same tasks but had a different start line to keep us apart and we started later.....the idea being we might give some clues as we overtook the stragglers from the Juniors as we went through...The juniors gliders ranged from a K6cr to ASG29 with just about everything in between, so no easy job for the task setter.
There were also an entrant from the German Junior training program who came along to take notes as well as fly.

The UK Junior training thing is sooooo much more than just gliding and has taken more than +10 years to get where it is now. Both the Task Setter and Contest Director were Juniors from the first couple of years of the program. There is also a sizeable group of recently ex-Juniors who always tag along. At least 2 of the 6 two seaters that were being used for training were being flown by recent ex juniors. All of these 2 seaters were loaned free of charge from both clubs and individuals. Each 2 seater had 2 pupils for the week taking turns day about. Post task the 2 seaters were put to work for the less experienced covering more basic skills. For the 12 places available for the 2 seaters they had more than 50 applicants.

Having not been a junior for several decades...(OK I'll fes up I'm **) I went along to their first debriefing session and, after it made a point to go to all the others that followed...despite being ex instructor and ex Chief Flying Instructor I gained a huge insight as these debriefings were very well conducted, the Master of Ceremonies at these debriefs is worth his weight in Gold.

The original program started with what were termed (locally) Flying Circus's going round the clubs that requested them. It started with one but quickly went to two.
Each Circus had one good 2 seater, plus suitable coach/senior comp pilot/instructor. They also had another similar qualified pilot with their own glider. Often a local was also inveigled...often the local Chief Flying Instructor with their own glider. These two carried out lead and follow X/C with up to 5 students flying whatever they had anything from K-8 to Discus. Each student also got a day in the 2 seater during the week. Most training weeks also seemed to get hold of a nice glider for the students to convert into at the end of the week to give them the taste of the 'high life' as many of the small clubs at that time did not run to anything better than an Astir at best!
The circle has come round again as the BGA has started this idea up again under the "Aim Higher" initiative which is aimed at the older pilots who for whatever reason are stuck in a rut. So there is nothing new.....

Oh one bit of advice if you get involved with juniors.......never ever go to the bar with them after flying...their livers and kidneys cope far better than yours !

Best Regards,"

More...

"Sean

During the comp the clubs caterers ran a scheme for the juniors in that for £50 they received both breakfast and evening meal for the whole 9 day comp. For comparison, those of us over 26 years old, an evening meal (starter and main course) typically cost £9.

The Junior organisers had also managed to get 3 x 2000' aerotows worth of sponsorship for each entrant for the comp, this included the chaps and chapesses in the 2 seaters. One of these aerotows was sponsored by an aircraft insurance company but I am not sure who did the other 2 tows.
I also believe that camping was free.
The local nice vario system vendor also set up lots of his wares for all to play with for most of the week. He was also doing a good deal for the juniors on Oudie2 IGC's, moved quite a few of them from what I saw. He also put up some prizes for both the junior comp and for the raffle that was run all week to raise money for the juniors.
He also managed to milk some sales from the Regional pilots. New radio and Flarm display for my part.

One of the other functions of the Flying Circus's during non flying days...(there is always at least one in the UK each week)...was to go through all the pupils gliders instrument plumbing (leak test etc). It was always surprising how many gliders turned up with truly appalling leaks and mis-plumbed instruments. And I would bet it will not be much better in the USA either!
TBH most electric varios suitably plumbed are more than capable of doing the required job.

As I said before, there is a lot more besides the flying to helping juniors..

I hope to be able to meet you when you get over this side of the pond?

Regards"

A 2016 Jr. Soaring Nationals USA?

(drum roll..........) I will offer to host a first ever USA Jr. Soaring Nationals 2016 in Ionia, Michigan the week before the SGP USA (appx. July 16-23). We need to have at least 10 commitments by a reasonable date (March 31). If anyone has any better ideas, please feel welcomed to raise your hand and speak up.

I challenge US soaring clubs to produce (identify and motivate), support (provide gliders, funding and coaches), develop (train and practice) and send (escort the teams, provide vehicles and help fund) qualified Junior entrants and send them to their first contest just for Junior pilots. I look forward to hearing what US soaring clubs are interested in answering my challenge and would appreciate some heads up (soon) so I can gauge interest and decide if I should start seriously planning.

The competition format would likely be sports class, or could even develop a format as docile as an OLC (max handicapped distance).

The Juniors can mingle with some of the very best pilots in the USA and the world that week as they ramp up for the 2016 Sailplane Grand Prix USA (http://www.sgp.aero/usa2016). This environment could be a lot of fun for junior pilots. But the key is that this is a National Soaring Contest, just for Juniors, and hopefully heavily supported (and attended) by their fellow club members and our national soaring authority (the SSA) just as it is in Britain and other developed soaring nations.

Patiently waiting for feedback...

Sean
7T

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 11:04:52 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
A 2016 Jr. Soaring Nationals USA?

(drum roll..........) I will offer to host a first ever USA Jr. Soaring Nationals 2016 in Ionia, Michigan the week before the SGP USA (appx. July 16-23). We need to have at least 10 commitments by a reasonable date (March 31). If anyone has any better ideas, please feel welcomed to raise your hand and speak up.

I challenge US soaring clubs to produce (identify and motivate), support (provide gliders, funding and coaches), develop (train and practice) and send (escort the teams, provide vehicles and help fund) qualified Junior entrants and send them to their first contest just for Junior pilots. I look forward to hearing what US soaring clubs are interested in answering my challenge and would appreciate some heads up (soon) so I can gauge interest and decide if I should start seriously planning.

The competition format would likely be sports class, or could even develop a format as docile as an OLC (max handicapped distance).

The Juniors can mingle with some of the very best pilots in the USA and the world that week as they ramp up for the 2016 Sailplane Grand Prix USA (http://www.sgp.aero/usa2016). This environment could be a lot of fun for junior pilots. But the key is that this is a National Soaring Contest, just for Juniors, and hopefully heavily supported (and attended) by their fellow club members and our national soaring authority (the SSA) just as it is in Britain and other developed soaring nations.

Patiently waiting for feedback...

Sean
7T

This is an excellent idea and I hope people step up. Thanks for taking the constructive approach.

Another alternative would be to add a juniors' sports class onto an existing, successful regional (or Nats). This offers the significant advantage of providing a little flying action for the coaches, and might bolster participation. Venues like Wurtsboro & Mifflin would be great for this.

I'd love to tow along an up and coming junior to my next regional. I've got a glass ship I can put him (or her) in, and I'd be happy to coach. We don't happen to have someone in the club who's ready for this in 2016, but as they say, "Rome didn't get built in a day!".

Evan Ludeman / T8

Evan,

You're welcome. We are all on the same team here at the end of the day. I believe that we all want to have fun soaring together and would like to see more people actively involved in the sport. At a minimum, we want to see US Soaring growing, healthy and easily accessible. At maximum, we would like to see European levels of participation or beyond.

We have one huge advantage; our knowledge that most parents will move mountains to help their children achieve success and gain confidence in themselves via key sports and activities. Our job is to raise XC soaring and the processes of mastering it higher on the list potential actions parents can employ to help kids grow into successful adults. If parents viewed "youth XC soaring" as a way to give their kid(s) superior life experience tools, we would be growing as a sport.

XC Soaring, in my opinion, is the coolest thing that I have ever done in my life. I have been lucky to experience many sports and activities (from racing motorcycles to Ironman triathlons to sailboat racing and many in between). If asked, soaring (particularly sailplane competition) tops my list by some significant margin. The experiences that I have encountered while flying sailplanes over the mountains out west are simply unforgettable. Equally moving in my life has been meeting the many challenges of learning XC soaring and contests. I am sure that many agree that soaring is an absolutely amazing sport. I can only imagine how my life might have been different if I had mastered XC soaring at 14 instead of 40. What an incredible opportunity these kids have laid out in front of them.

We have an incredible sport to represent to juniors in soaring. Most have no idea what XC soaring is or what it means. In fact, when I say "soaring" to someone new, they immediately change the word to "gliding!" They cannot believe how long the gliders can stay aloft or how far and fast they can go! They "subconsciously" change the word soaring into gliding. Clearly what we have been doing, up until now, is not working. We need to try many new approaches and perhaps consider re-branding the sport with a new, powerful, well-coordinated marketing message. Even most power pilots have no idea what XC soaring is! The call us a "glider add on rating." Something to do some weekend, someday, for fun and then move on... A huge problem.

"Lets Go GLIDING," unfortunately, didn't work.

Anyway, these are things that the SSA must be working on as we speak... ;-) I can't imagine what other higher priorities we have.

My part, for now, is the start a Junior National Contest and help create a culture that supports it and helps it thrive.

Sean
7T

Evan,

You're welcome. We are all on the same team here at the end of the day. I believe that we all want to have fun soaring together and would like to see more people actively involved in the sport. At a minimum, we want to see US Soaring growing, healthy and easily accessible. At maximum, we would like to see European levels of participation or beyond.

We have one huge advantage; our knowledge that most parents will move mountains to help their children achieve success and gain confidence in themselves via key sports and activities. Our job is to raise XC soaring and the processes of mastering it higher on the list potential actions parents can employ to help kids grow into successful adults. If parents viewed "youth XC soaring" as a way to give their kid(s) superior life experience tools, we would be growing as a sport.

XC Soaring, in my opinion, is the coolest thing that I have ever done in my life. I have been lucky to experience many sports and activities (from racing motorcycles to Ironman triathlons to sailboat racing and many in between). If asked, soaring (particularly sailplane competition) tops my list by some significant margin. The experiences that I have encountered while flying sailplanes over the mountains out west are simply unforgettable. Equally moving in my life has been meeting the many challenges of learning XC soaring and contests. I am sure that many agree that soaring is an absolutely amazing sport. I can only imagine how my life might have been different if I had mastered XC soaring at 14 instead of 40. What an incredible opportunity these kids have laid out in front of them.

We have an incredible sport to represent to juniors in soaring. Most have no idea what XC soaring is or what it means. In fact, when I say "soaring" to someone new, they immediately change the word to "gliding!" They cannot believe how long the gliders can stay aloft or how far and fast they can go! They "subconsciously" change the word soaring into gliding. Clearly what we have been doing, up until now, is not working. We need to try many new approaches and perhaps consider re-branding the sport with a new, powerful, well-coordinated marketing message. Even most power pilots have no idea what XC soaring is! The call us a "glider add on rating." Something to do some weekend, someday, for fun and then move on... A huge problem.

"Lets Go GLIDING," unfortunately, didn't work.

Anyway, these are things that the SSA must be working on as we speak... ;-) I can't imagine what other higher priorities we have.

My part, for now, is to start a US Junior National Contest and help create a culture that supports junior XC soaring and helps it thrive.

Sean
7T

Evan,

You're welcome. We are all on the same team here at the end of the day. I believe that we all want to have fun soaring together and would like to see more people actively involved in the sport. At a minimum, we want to see US Soaring growing, healthy and easily accessible. At maximum, we would like to see European levels of participation or beyond.

We have one huge advantage; our knowledge that most parents will move mountains to help their children achieve success and gain confidence in themselves via key sports and activities. Our job is to raise XC soaring and the processes of mastering it higher on the list potential actions parents can employ to help kids grow into successful adults. If parents viewed "youth XC soaring" as a way to give their kid(s) superior life experience tools, we would be growing as a sport.

XC Soaring, in my opinion, is the coolest thing that I have ever done in my life. I have been lucky to experience many sports and activities (from racing motorcycles to Ironman triathlons to sailboat racing and many in between). If asked, soaring (particularly sailplane competition) tops my list by some significant margin. The experiences that I have encountered while flying sailplanes over the mountains out west are simply unforgettable. Equally moving in my life has been meeting the many challenges of learning XC soaring and contests. I am sure that many agree that soaring is an absolutely amazing sport. I can only imagine how my life might have been different if I had mastered XC soaring at 14 instead of 40. What an incredible opportunity these kids have laid out in front of them.

We have an incredible sport to represent to juniors in soaring. Most have no idea what XC soaring is or what it means. In fact, when I say "soaring" to someone new, they immediately change the word to "gliding!" They cannot believe how long the gliders can stay aloft or how far and fast they can go! They "subconsciously" change the word soaring into gliding. Clearly what we have been doing, up until now, is not working. We need to try many new approaches and perhaps consider re-branding the sport with a new, powerful, well-coordinated marketing message. Even most power pilots have no idea what XC soaring is! The call us a "glider add-on rating." Something to do some weekend, someday, for fun and then move on... A huge problem.

"Lets Go GLIDING," unfortunately, didn't work.

Anyway, these are things that the SSA must be working on as we speak... ;-) I can't imagine what other higher priorities we have.

My part, for now, is to start a Junior National Contest and help create a culture that supports it and helps it thrive.

Sean
7T

Let me suggest that you take a longer term approach to a Junior Nationals like a 5 year or 10 year time frame. Even though our club has 35 Juniors, there's just one I know of that could participate in a Junior Nationals this year. If he's busy during that time, we'd send zero. I suspect other clubs would be in the same boat.

Why don't you consider a Junior XC soaring event as a way to prime the pump for a nationals that follow a year or two later? For example, every two years, we take our Juniors to Mifflin -any skill level, and bring several gliders and instructors. We fly 2-33's, 1-26's ASK-21's and Duo Discus and our Discus CS. We camp on the airport for several days and give the kids a chance to fly at a different airport, experience XC ridge soaring and so on.. They absolutely love it.

You could do the same. Arrange to have several XC instructors and aircraft come to a location (perhaps an East and a West event would be best due to distance). The intent of the session should be to stimulate interest in cross country flying for Juniors of varying skill levels. You can bracket the kids and have a few fly competitively while others learn XC. Start small, limit attendance -perhaps to those who have soloed or have a private pilot certificate and see how it goes. Do something crazy like vette them online using Condor ahead of time.

Keep in mind that whatever you do, it needs to be a parent friendly event. Younger Juniors don't have transportation and for those who do, today's parents aren't going to hand them the keys to SUV with a glider on the back and wave goodbye as they head cross country for the event. Kids are far more controlled and protected than you and I were at their age and even at age 18 and older. Giving parents a chance to help out or do something with their kids while there and making it a turnkey event with gliders to fly and instructors to help out will be important.

A year or two of an event like that should give you a much better idea of how to stimulate Junior XC interests.

Thanks for your comment.

For me, it's all about what the juniors want. If 10 are willing to show up, I'll host them to the absolute best of my ability and will help them in any way I possibly can. I am open to their guidance and input for sure. If they want another location or a different date, cool.

Skill level, at this point, is unimportant. We know that many clubs will have to work hard to develop our junior pilots to XC levels. Half of our clubs don't have XC for their adults (club equipment)! We have clear models to follow with Jr. XC soaring, however. If your juniors don't have the skills yet to fly solo, then bring a two place (or rent of borrow one) and help them fly with an instructor or coach. I have challenged ALL US clubs to make the effort. I am confident that many can meet the challenge. Its a matter of focus, will and perseverance. Falling short is part of learning. There is little to loose here in being aggressive and trying to schedule an event. If in a country of 340 million, we can't get 10 juniors to a contest (when Britain (66 Million) gets 70, has dozens of events throughout the year, many with waiting lists, etc) we should be truly ashamed.

As these other countries have clearly shown, juniors truly appreciate having "their own" event. In my opinion, they can shape it however they want it.. I look to the Jr. leaders to help make decisions on all of this along with guidance from adult leaders.

The big question is how long will it take for US clubs to make the serious changes required to "truly support" junior XC soaring and build a culture that is as focused on developing juniors as it is on satisfying seniors. If you think about it, any soaring nation that is not equal in these two measures is failing. Therefore, the USA is not doing to well....hmm. "How long" is the big challenge standing in the way of building Junior XC soaring in the USA. I just don't care about the typical excuses anymore. Send your kids! Get them fired up.

I am sure this endeavor will be a learning process, but the upside of having a US Jr. Nationals next year (2016) is well worth the effort. For me at least.

We should fly a representative over to speak at the upcoming SSA convention.. We would be crazy not to do this in fact. WHO IS AT THE HELM OF US SOARING AND THE SSA AGAIN?

Sean