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Improved live tracking for the SSA membership?



 
 
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  #41  
Old April 8th 17, 02:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Posts: 964
Default Improved live tracking for the SSA membership?

I'm currently talking to 3 firms about COTS hybrid systems (very expensive).. I would love Alan or Pedja to find the time work on this. I have two demo units on-route for testing this summer. The third unit was over 10k just for the hardware alone. The other two are far more reasonable.

Alan your mention of a combined or integrated trace in the viewer is ideal. This dual track result (mobile app/InReach) was a complaint at the SGP.

Sean
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  #42  
Old April 8th 17, 05:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Improved live tracking for the SSA membership?

I have in the past seen something like this done successfully - but t is rare. (getting a bunch of individuals to all do something)

I belive what it would take to be done right - is the SSA do a fundraiser to purchase 60 units (whatever works) and then supply them to the contests with the contest making turning them on a requirement.

The unit maker may see it as a win - maybe if people tried thier product they would discover the value.
The contest would win by getting people to watch and maybe even get sponsorship opportunities.
the family and friends would win by getting to see their pilot fly.

if left up to the individuals - contest tracking will always suck and be missing most gliders, except at high end contests like the worlds or maybe the Grand Prix races.

I think tracking is awesome/critical - and can't understand why anyone flying XC doesn't desire a good track with all the data - even outside contest tasks. how we all go off into the abyss with no one keeping trak fo where we are, just does not make sense to anyone outside the Soaring community - and that is where new pilots come from

It was understandable before tracking was possible - now it borders on negligent - we don't use cameras any more to prove where we went - it is time to embrace some new stuff - you can couch it in safety if that makes you feel better. But getting tracking done right is importnat to our sport.

My $.02

WH
  #43  
Old April 9th 17, 09:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim White[_3_]
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Posts: 208
Default Improved live tracking for the SSA membership?

Today in Europe we have good flying weather. There will be a lot of gliders
airborne.

Europe is pretty much the same size as the USA. Take a look at what has
been achieved with Flarm tracking he

Take a look at spot the gliders around 1400 GMT on any good day and you
will see the extent of the coverage across Europe including hilly places
like the alps. http://live.glidernet.org/#c=20.32052,-22.77151&z=3

With a $10 high gain aerial on the tracking unit you might be surprised how
few would give good coverage. If a comp sets tasks up to say 600k O/R then
it might be possible to get full coverage in all directions with just 9 or
10 units. In the UK and across Europe these are set up by enthusiasts
because they like fiddling with such things. The Raspberry PI code is
freely available and automatically uploads the results to the net for
public consumption.

Or go here http://ognrange.onglide.com/# to see the coverage that has been
achieved in Europe so far. I’ll bet there is a wider coverage possible in
the US than you think.

Or go here to see what log book features we use at Booker
http://ktrax.kisstech.ch/logbook/ enter EGTB and see what we did yesterday

Jim

  #44  
Old April 9th 17, 04:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Posts: 964
Default Improved live tracking for the SSA membership?

Great idea WH!!!

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 12:02:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I have in the past seen something like this done successfully - but t is rare. (getting a bunch of individuals to all do something)

I belive what it would take to be done right - is the SSA do a fundraiser to purchase 60 units (whatever works) and then supply them to the contests with the contest making turning them on a requirement.

The unit maker may see it as a win - maybe if people tried thier product they would discover the value.
The contest would win by getting people to watch and maybe even get sponsorship opportunities.
the family and friends would win by getting to see their pilot fly.

if left up to the individuals - contest tracking will always suck and be missing most gliders, except at high end contests like the worlds or maybe the Grand Prix races.

I think tracking is awesome/critical - and can't understand why anyone flying XC doesn't desire a good track with all the data - even outside contest tasks. how we all go off into the abyss with no one keeping trak fo where we are, just does not make sense to anyone outside the Soaring community - and that is where new pilots come from

It was understandable before tracking was possible - now it borders on negligent - we don't use cameras any more to prove where we went - it is time to embrace some new stuff - you can couch it in safety if that makes you feel better. But getting tracking done right is importnat to our sport.

My $.02

WH

  #45  
Old April 9th 17, 04:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Posts: 964
Default Improved live tracking for the SSA membership?

Well said Jim. I think we need to start encouraging US clubs and individual pilots to start building Flarm Antennas for this purpose. Again, another SSA opportunity for innovation...just following the Euro blueprint...

Sean

On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 4:15:07 AM UTC-4, Jim White wrote:
Today in Europe we have good flying weather. There will be a lot of gliders
airborne.

Europe is pretty much the same size as the USA. Take a look at what has
been achieved with Flarm tracking he

Take a look at spot the gliders around 1400 GMT on any good day and you
will see the extent of the coverage across Europe including hilly places
like the alps. http://live.glidernet.org/#c=20.32052,-22.77151&z=3

With a $10 high gain aerial on the tracking unit you might be surprised how
few would give good coverage. If a comp sets tasks up to say 600k O/R then
it might be possible to get full coverage in all directions with just 9 or
10 units. In the UK and across Europe these are set up by enthusiasts
because they like fiddling with such things. The Raspberry PI code is
freely available and automatically uploads the results to the net for
public consumption.

Or go here http://ognrange.onglide.com/# to see the coverage that has been
achieved in Europe so far. I’ll bet there is a wider coverage possible in
the US than you think.

Or go here to see what log book features we use at Booker
http://ktrax.kisstech.ch/logbook/ enter EGTB and see what we did yesterday

Jim


  #46  
Old April 9th 17, 11:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 34
Default Improved live tracking for the SSA membership?

On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 8:39:57 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
Well said Jim. I think we need to start encouraging US clubs and individual pilots to start building Flarm Antennas for this purpose. Again, another SSA opportunity for innovation...just following the Euro blueprint...

Sean


Before encouraging a Flarm-based tracking system for the US, would it not be a good idea to determine if an adsb-based system would be better?
  #47  
Old April 10th 17, 12:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Posts: 964
Default Improved live tracking for the SSA membership?

I agree ADSB is a FAR BETTER solution for all of this...but we have to deal with the reality of the US glider population and the narrative that is being driven...

For those of you interested in building a Flarm Radar base stations, it's not that difficult. Check this link out for more info: http://wiki.glidernet.org/links

Sean
  #48  
Old April 10th 17, 02:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom BravoMike
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Posts: 42
Default Improved live tracking for the SSA membership?

Before encouraging a Flarm-based tracking system for the US, would it not be a good idea to determine if an adsb-based system would be better?

I've been asking this question myself all the time. I keep following the discussion on the subject here on r.a.s. and many other places. While I accept that several low L/D gliders with no electrical system, no radio, and flying basically locally around airports marked on the charts as having glider operations should be left in peace, I don't understand why we are so lax about safety and insist on being invisible in the ADS-B system. The cost? Yes, it's still high at the moment, but the prices go down and will continue to do so as we get closer to the year 2020. Parachutes aren't cheap, either, but most (all?) private glider pilots have them. I saw the prices of modern computer systems from different manufacturers at the last Convention in Greenville, SC: the range of $4-8k caused no scandal or uproar. At this point of time with ADS-B equipped planes swarming around us and growing in number, is it really worth investing time and cash in totally (almost, one-way)separatistic systems? IMHO the answer is NO.

This said, I believe, however, it's worth not to rush and wait these next 2-3 years till the deadline, as there MUST be new systems offered on the market for the light category aircrafts and all kinds of awkward flying object like drones. The choice will certainly not shrink.

I know, I know: this thread is about tracking - but the leap between ADS-B and tracking seems to be a very short one.

Tom BravoMike
  #49  
Old April 10th 17, 02:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Agnew
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Posts: 99
Default Improved live tracking for the SSA membership?

FWIW - there is already an internet solution that could be the basis for ADS-B tracking. It obviously doesn't show the planes only equipped with Mode-A transponders, but eventually ADS-B will be valuable to our operations. I hope to be able to use this or something similar in the coming years as a basis for general traffic awareness for our Line Chief using a tablet with internet. We have a lot of GA traffic that blasts through our pattern oblivious that they are over an active grass strip at 600'-1000'. If the Line Chief can spot them coming, he can alert anyone in the pattern or preparing to launch. Yes, I'm thinking that far ahead...

https://www.adsbexchange.com/

https://global.adsbexchange.com/Virt...r/desktop.html

Paul Agnew
Treasure Coast Soaring Club
Vero Beach, FL (X52)


  #50  
Old April 11th 17, 05:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Posts: 964
Default Improved live tracking for the SSA membership?

Here is something interesting on the subject of tracking...

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39558952
 




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