Pakistan May Have al-Qaida's No. 2 Man Surrounded

Charles Gray wrote in message
...
Among his supporters, you're probably right-- but it will limit his
ability to move out of safe areas where his supporters exist. With a
small bounty, OBL might be able to live in many large cities, trusting
in the people to hide him (or get lost in the crush).
Also, a 50 mil reward allows the informant to move far away and have
money for good security, somethign that will probably be a wise
precaution...


Then OBL's only safe areas may be Paris and San Francisco.

--
Scott
--------
Instead of vowing to fight the people who killed their fellow citizens,
the Spanish decided to vote with al-Qaida on the war. A murdering
terrorist organization said, "Jump!" and an entire country answered,
"How high?" -- Ann Coulter

Personal preference: taken alive, put before a U.S. Military Tribunal for
Violations of the Laws and Customs of War, convicted, and executed. Realistic
expectation: "Killed while resisting capture." Either way, justice for 9/11,
U.S.S. Cole, East Africa Embassies, Bali, Madrid, etc, is done. If we do
take him alive, shoot him full of babble juice so we can go after OBL. Then
put him on trial. After the trial, either have him hanged or shot: the needle
in this case is too lenient. A friend of mine from college suggested building
a gallows on the site of Ground Zero, and hanging any and all 9/11 plotters
and facilitators there where the atrocity took place.






(Dav1936531) wrote:
Place your bets. Will Ayman al-Zawahri be captured
alive? Or will he die the
death of a glorious jihadi martyr? I'll bet
he dies....... the Pakistanis
hunting him probably have strict orders to kill
him so he can't talk about
Pakistan's relations with both the Taliban and
Al-Qaeda.
Dave

WANA, Pakistan (March 18) - Pakistani troops
believe they have surrounded
al-Qaida No. 2 Ayman al-Zawahri in an operation
near the Afghan border, three
senior Pakistani officials said Thursday.

The officials told The Associated Press that
intelligence indicated the
Egyptian-born al-Zawahri, Osama bin Laden's
top deputy, has been cornered in an
operation. One intelligence official said captured
fighters said al-Zawahri had
been wounded.

The operation began Tuesday in South Waziristan
with hundreds of troops and
paramilitary rangers, who fired artillery and
used helicopter gunships to
attack dug-in al-Qaida fighters. Dozens of fighters
were killed and 18 were
captured, the intelligence official said.

''We have been receiving intelligence and information
from our agents who are
working in the tribal areas that al-Zawahri
could be among the people hiding
there,'' a military official said. ''All of
our efforts are to capture him.''

An intelligence official and senior politician
in President Gen. Pervez
Musharraf's government both confirmed the account.
All spoke on condition of
anonymity.

The United States has offered a $25 million
reward for information leading to
al-Zawahri's capture.

Pakistani officials said they do not have any
intelligence indicating that bin
Laden is with al-Zawahri. In the past, intelligence
officials have speculated
that the two are traveling together, and bin
Laden and al-Zawahri appeared
together in video tapes released shortly after
the Sept. 11 attacks.

In an interview with CNN, Musharraf said he
had spoken with the commander of
Pakistani troops in the region. He said the
commander reported ''fierce
resistance'' from a group of fighters entrenched
in fort-like buildings and
that there were indications that a senior figure
was surrounded.

''He's reasonably sure there's a high-value
target there,'' Musharraf said.

Musharraf said the area was being ''pounded''
by artillery.

Speaking on the condition of anonymity, a U.S.
counterterrorism official said:
''It would appear that the Pakistanis have surrounded
a very senior al-Qaida
figure, but at this point we are not certain
who it is.''

The Pakistani military has been pursuing 100
tribal leaders that authorities
want to roll into their efforts to hunt al-Qaida
in the Waziristan frontier. So
far, about two-thirds have said they would provide
information and turn over
any Islamic militants in their territories,
American defense officials said on
condition of anonymity.

The others are facing destruction of their homes
by the hands of Pakistani
military, officials said.

The Pakistanis also are targeting Arabs and
other foreigners who settled in the
tribal regions shortly after the Afghan-Soviet
war in the 1980s, the officials
said. While some veterans of the war formed
the nucleus of al-Qaida, others put
down roots in Pakistan.

It is believed that some of these veterans are
providing a support network for
bin Laden and his followers in the region, officials
said.

U.S. officials say they are watching to see
if the Pakistani actions send
militant fighters moving back to Afghanistan,
where U.S. troops operate freely.

Hundreds of Pakistani troops have moved into
three South Waziristan towns -
Azam Warsak, Shin Warsak and Kaloosha - against
entrenched positions.

''They are not coming out in spite of the fact
that we pounded them with
artillery,'' Musharraf told CNN.

Early morning calls from mosques warned residents
in Azam Warsak, Shin Warsak
and Kaloosha to leave the area, apparently to
give the troops more room to
operate.

''They asked locals, women and children, to
move out, which many did. And then
they shot upon the area, with ... helicopters
also,'' Musharraf told CNN.

At least 41 people - including 15 soldiers and
26 suspected militants - were
killed Tuesday in fighting in the area, and
army spokesman Gen. Shaukat Sultan
said there were an unknown number of casualties
in continued action Thursday.

The military said Thursday that most of those
killed were foreigners, but it
did not give their nationalities and acknowledged
that only two bodies had been
recovered.

The two dead were believed to be a Chechen and
someone of Middle Eastern
origin, a military official said on condition
of anonymity.

The news came the same day as Secretary of State
Colin Powell announced in
Islamabad that Washington was bestowing the
status of ''major non-NATO ally''
on Pakistan and praised it for its help in the
war on terror.

Musharraf, a key ally in the U.S.-led war on
terrorism, promised Monday to rid
the tribal areas of foreign terrorists.

Powell, who left the country hours before the
announcement, also said he
believed there was evidence that al-Qaida leader
bin Laden is still alive and
hiding in the rugged border area.

''No one has seen him, so how can one be sure?''
Powell told Geo TV. ''But he
has certainly given evidence that he is alive
and active. But we can't be sure.

''And if he is alive and active, and the evidence
suggests that he is, and if
he is in the area of the Pakistan-Afghan border,
that's a very difficult area
to find someone who doesn't want to be found.''

A spokesman for the U.S. military in Afghanistan
told AP the force hoped
Pakistani soldiers had indeed cornered al-Zawahri,
but he had no new
information on the whereabouts of either of
the al-Qaida leaders.

''All the senior leaders of al-Qaida will be
brought to justice,'' Lt. Col.
Bryan Hilferty said.

Hilferty said a U.S. operation begun March 7
on the Afghan side of the border
was continuing, but he gave no details and said
he had no information of any
signs of militants fleeing from Pakistan.

About a dozen helicopters buzzed over Wana,
the main town in South Waziristan,
early Thursday, flying toward the operation
zone about six miles to the west.

A convoy of army trucks carrying soldiers also
passed Wana hours before the
operation started. Later, mortar explosions
were heard in the town.

Interior Ministry spokesman Abdur Rauf Chaudhry
said extra troops were
dispatched in anticipation of the new offensive.

He said ''a few'' paramilitary troops are missing
from Tuesday's operation in
Kaloosha, with rumors in the region that they
may have been kidnapped by the
suspected militants.

The raid has sparked outrage in the tribal region,
which fiercely covets its
autonomy and has resisted outside intervention
for centuries.

In another part of the tribal region, North
Waziristan, attackers launched a
rocket and fired gunshots at a Pakistan army
post before dawn Thursday, Sultan
said. Two soldiers died and several were injured
in the attack, an intelligence
official told the AP on condition of anonymity.

The official also said assailants threw a hand
grenade at an army truck heading
to Miran Shah, North Waziristan's main town,
and that several soldiers were
injured. But Sultan denied the incident occurred.


03-18-04 15:12 EST




Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

"Matt Wiser" wrote in message
news:405b21da$1@bg2....

Personal preference: taken alive, put before a U.S. Military Tribunal for
Violations of the Laws and Customs of War, convicted, and executed.
Realistic
expectation: "Killed while resisting capture." Either way, justice for
9/11,
U.S.S. Cole, East Africa Embassies, Bali, Madrid, etc, is done. If we do
take him alive, shoot him full of babble juice so we can go after OBL.
Then
put him on trial. After the trial, either have him hanged or shot: the
needle
in this case is too lenient. A friend of mine from college suggested
building
a gallows on the site of Ground Zero, and hanging any and all 9/11
plotters
and facilitators there where the atrocity took place.

Heads on pikes?

"Matt Wiser" wrote

A friend of mine from college suggested building
a gallows on the site of Ground Zero, and hanging any and all 9/11 plotters
and facilitators there where the atrocity took place.

So the dead spirits can remain together with those they killed?

Stephen Harding wrote:

Guy Alcala wrote:

The $25 million on OBL's head, and the $25 million on Zawahri's haven't talked up
until now. I see the Congress has doubled Osama's bounty to $50 million. Gee, how
likely is it that there's someone out there in the hills of Afghanistan saying to
themselves, "A measly $25 million?!! Why, I wouldn't even consider betraying him
for a nickel less than $50 mill!"

I think it might actually send a more potent message to start
*lowering* the reward!

For people in the area, the ones in the know, there really isn't
much difference between $50M, $25M, $10M, $5M. It's an
unimaginably large amount of money.

Raising the reward seems to imply the US is failing. Something
even OBL haters might enjoy seeing. Lowering the reward sends
a message that the US is growing more stronger and more
confident in countering him.

Maybe not, but it might have some positive psychological effect.


SMH

Could be...might make some fence sitters think, "Damn, I better
make hay while the sun shines"
--

-Gord.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

"Matt Wiser" wrote
in message
news:405b21da$1@bg2....

Personal preference: taken alive, put before
a U.S. Military Tribunal for
Violations of the Laws and Customs of War,
convicted, and executed.
Realistic
expectation: "Killed while resisting capture."
Either way, justice for
9/11,
U.S.S. Cole, East Africa Embassies, Bali,
Madrid, etc, is done. If we do
take him alive, shoot him full of babble juice
so we can go after OBL.
Then
put him on trial. After the trial, either
have him hanged or shot: the
needle
in this case is too lenient. A friend of mine
from college suggested
building
a gallows on the site of Ground Zero, and
hanging any and all 9/11
plotters
and facilitators there where the atrocity
took place.

Heads on pikes?


That was my friend's suggestion: and in the old days that sent a pretty
strong message that if you got out of line, the price paid was in the extreme.
I'd personally prefer giving them either the needle or the noose.And keep
the burial site secret: no turning a grave site into a shrine for those who
might grieve for the deceased.

Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

In article 405c50d2@bg2., "Matt Wiser"
wrote:

"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

"Matt Wiser" wrote
in message
news:405b21da$1@bg2....

Personal preference: taken alive, put before
a U.S. Military Tribunal for
Violations of the Laws and Customs of War,
convicted, and executed.
Realistic
expectation: "Killed while resisting capture."
Either way, justice for
9/11,
U.S.S. Cole, East Africa Embassies, Bali,
Madrid, etc, is done. If we do
take him alive, shoot him full of babble juice
so we can go after OBL.
Then
put him on trial. After the trial, either
have him hanged or shot: the
needle
in this case is too lenient. A friend of mine
from college suggested
building
a gallows on the site of Ground Zero, and
hanging any and all 9/11
plotters
and facilitators there where the atrocity
took place.

Heads on pikes?


That was my friend's suggestion: and in the old days that sent a pretty
strong message that if you got out of line, the price paid was in the extreme.
I'd personally prefer giving them either the needle or the noose.And keep
the burial site secret: no turning a grave site into a shrine for those who
might grieve for the deceased.

Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

And -- bury his body encased in a hog carcass!

Charles Gray wrote:

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 04:53:49 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Dav1936531 wrote:


The $25 million on OBL's head, and the $25 million on Zawahri's haven't talked up
until now. I see the Congress has doubled Osama's bounty to $50 million. Gee, how
likely is it that there's someone out there in the hills of Afghanistan saying to
themselves, "A measly $25 million?!! Why, I wouldn't even consider betraying him
for a nickel less than $50 mill!"

Guy

Among his supporters, you're probably right-- but it will limit his
ability to move out of safe areas where his supporters exist. With a
small bounty, OBL might be able to live in many large cities, trusting
in the people to hide him (or get lost in the crush).

You think $25 million is a SMALL bounty?!?! H'mmm. You're really Bill Gates, and I
claim my 5 pounds ;-)

Also, a 50 mil reward allows the informant to move far away and have
money for good security, somethign that will probably be a wise
precaution...

Yeah, I can just see the average Afghan villager, eking out his existence tending his
goats and his small plot of land, saying to himself, "I just don't see _how_ I could
afford to move away and live elsewhere for _only_ $25 million; I'd need _at least_
another $25 million just for cabfare and tips" ;-)

Guy

" wrote:

Stephen Harding wrote:

Guy Alcala wrote:

The $25 million on OBL's head, and the $25 million on Zawahri's haven't talked up
until now. I see the Congress has doubled Osama's bounty to $50 million. Gee, how
likely is it that there's someone out there in the hills of Afghanistan saying to
themselves, "A measly $25 million?!! Why, I wouldn't even consider betraying him
for a nickel less than $50 mill!"

I think it might actually send a more potent message to start
*lowering* the reward!

For people in the area, the ones in the know, there really isn't
much difference between $50M, $25M, $10M, $5M. It's an
unimaginably large amount of money.

Raising the reward seems to imply the US is failing. Something
even OBL haters might enjoy seeing. Lowering the reward sends
a message that the US is growing more stronger and more
confident in countering him.

Maybe not, but it might have some positive psychological effect.


SMH

Could be...might make some fence sitters think, "Damn, I better
make hay while the sun shines"

So, you're thinking a dutch auction?

Guy

In article ,
Guy Alcala writes:
Charles Gray wrote:

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 04:53:49 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Dav1936531 wrote:


The $25 million on OBL's head, and the $25 million on Zawahri's haven't talked up
until now. I see the Congress has doubled Osama's bounty to $50 million. Gee, how
likely is it that there's someone out there in the hills of Afghanistan saying to
themselves, "A measly $25 million?!! Why, I wouldn't even consider betraying him
for a nickel less than $50 mill!"

Guy

Among his supporters, you're probably right-- but it will limit his
ability to move out of safe areas where his supporters exist. With a
small bounty, OBL might be able to live in many large cities, trusting
in the people to hide him (or get lost in the crush).

You think $25 million is a SMALL bounty?!?! H'mmm. You're really Bill Gates, and I
claim my 5 pounds ;-)

Actually, when you're dealing with, say, illiterate and immumerate
peasant types (Such as are, unfortunately, still by far the most
common folks you're going to meet in, say Afghanistan, or Pakistan,
ore pretty much anywhere else in that corner of the world, even in the
cities, it very quickly gets to the point where, by raising the
reward, all you're doing it trading one unimaginably huge sum for
another. 25 million, 50 million, even 1 million - it's all pretty
much the same to folks who are still counting in 1, 2, several,
many... (Actually, the biggest number that they seem to be able to get
their minds around is 40-50.) I kind of like the idea of dropping hte
reward, and publicizing that fact. Hit 'em in their vanity, you're
almost sure to get a reaction. In fact, let's set up a scheduled
rollback on the reward. For every two months that passes, we knock a
million off of the reward. Then we can sturt in with the derision &
humiliation. Start a campaign to cast ridicule on the Terrs and their
cause, really do the Saturday Night Live thing (From back when it was
funny) on them. (Look what Garret Morris did for Idi Amin, after
all). Put David Hasselhof & Pamela Anderson in it, and we can
guarantee a wide-ranging World-wide viewership.

I think I'll go do lunch, now.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster