Opinions please, preferred pattern joining methods

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
...

I was told that on a VOR A type approach or circle to land, that once you
identify the runway environment, you must remain in visual contact.

Once you lose sight of the runway environment, I was told you must execute
a missed approach. Even though I may be in class E space, I must maintain
visual contact with the runway environement to land. Thus my position to
overfly the airport and always to keep it in my sight.

If I was to extend my downwind or an extended final to such where I lose
contact with the runway (as proposed by the original poster, a five mile
final), then missed approach would be appropriate especially if you are
coming into an airport without nav aids such as a localizer or ILS.


Keeping the runway in sight does not require 3 miles visibility.

I'm with McNicholl on this one, technically it would probably be a
crosswind entry. But it depends. Listen to the radio. Where is the
other traffic? The idea is an orderly flow of aircraft around the
pattern. Whatever else you do, enter behind one of the other planes and
make sure you don't cut anyone off. I am one of these people that
believe that if there is no one around, you can fly to the center of
the runway and do a "midfield" crosswind entry if the downwind is on
the other side of the field from you. And this works fine if there is
no one around to cut off. Or if you know where all the other airplanes
are and you wont interfere.

If in doubt, the best thing would be to fly to the other side of the
airport well north of the pattern and enter the downwind at a 45. This
is what I would do if I approached and there were a lot of radio
position calls indicating a lot of traffic in the pattern.

I'm with McNicholl on this one, technically it would probably be a
crosswind entry. But it depends. Listen to the radio. Where is the
other traffic? The idea is an orderly flow of aircraft around the
pattern. Whatever else you do, enter behind one of the other planes and
make sure you don't cut anyone off. I am one of these people that
believe that if there is no one around, you can fly to the center of
the runway and do a "midfield" crosswind entry if the downwind is on
the other side of the field from you. And this works fine if there is
no one around to cut off. Or if you know where all the other airplanes
are and you wont interfere.

If in doubt, the best thing would be to fly to the other side of the
airport well north of the pattern and enter the downwind at a 45. This
is what I would do if I approached and there were a lot of radio
position calls indicating a lot of traffic in the pattern.

What you are missing is that 4-3-2 deals with application of traffic pattern
indicators, period. Look at the note near 4-3-1 to see what the writers of
the AIM say about traffic pattern entries.

Bob

"Daniel L. Lieberman" wrote in message
...
Bob,

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something but Figure 4-3-2 of the 2005 AIM
Shows only one entry to the pattern.

That is what you suggested. The straight in (his second choice) is
probably more dangerous. I would be concerned about the possibility of (if
there is an Instrument Approach to 36) someone coming in behind or above
me.

I will look up the AC you referenced in an attempt to learn more. I know
one of the local DPEs might fail the straight in since he says the PTS
incorporates the AIM.

Daniel


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
I like your first solution better than the second. Having said that,
neither the regs nor the AIM provide much guidance in the situation you
describe. Look at Advisory Circular 90-66A for more relevant information.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
...
Consider you're NE of the airfield, non towered airport, runway 18/36,
standard left pattern applies, with runway 36 the active. I'm
interested in hearing what your personal method of joining the pattern
would be, while adhering to the FAR's and AIM.

I've two thoughts:

Fly south, then west, pass overhead the field, and then 2 or 3 miles
later do a descending 225 degree right turn, and join on a 45 degree
to downwind, or

Stay east and then south of the airport, and join a straight in
outside 5 sm.

Opinions?

Stan






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I'd enter on crosswind about a mile north of the airport. I'd have a
view of the whole runway.

Your scenario would also be a good one, especially if I were trying to
sort out traffic.


wrote in message
...
Consider you're NE of the airfield, non towered airport, runway 18/36,
standard left pattern applies, with runway 36 the active. I'm
interested in hearing what your personal method of joining the pattern
would be, while adhering to the FAR's and AIM.

I've two thoughts:

Fly south, then west, pass overhead the field, and then 2 or 3 miles
later do a descending 225 degree right turn, and join on a 45 degree
to downwind, or

Stay east and then south of the airport, and join a straight in
outside 5 sm.

Opinions?

Stan

Steven, thanks for the reply. Assuming you're vfr, and not off an ifr
approach, are your suggesting to proceed southwest at pattern altitude
and join downwind with a 45 degree or so left turn?
after all, all turns to the left when approaching to land!
Just looking for some ideas on what considered acceptable.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:56:06 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Consider you're NE of the airfield, non towered airport, runway 18/36,
standard left pattern applies, with runway 36 the active. I'm
interested in hearing what your personal method of joining the pattern
would be, while adhering to the FAR's and AIM.

I've two thoughts:

Fly south, then west, pass overhead the field, and then 2 or 3 miles
later do a descending 225 degree right turn, and join on a 45 degree
to downwind, or

Stay east and then south of the airport, and join a straight in
outside 5 sm.

Opinions?


Head southwest and enter left downwind.

what you say makes sense to me, but I'm just surprised there's no
mention of such in the aim.

Instructors out there, is this what you teach students as a preferred
entry method, or do you prefer they comply with the aim
recommendations?
Just wondering how many pilots prefer to just make the simplest entry,
minimizing time manoeuvring in the pattern, and perhaps being safer on
the whole

Stan

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:26:33 -0600, "Dan Luke"
wrote:

Fly SW and cross midfield at pattern altitude; join the the left
downwind.

But the first seems much more manoeuvring, possible preventing as good
a look out as the second option. I'm actually wondering if the second
seems more practicle.

Stan

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:26:54 -0800, "Bob Gardner"
wrote:

I like your first solution better than the second. Having said that, neither
the regs nor the AIM provide much guidance in the situation you describe.
Look at Advisory Circular 90-66A for more relevant information.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
.. .
Consider you're NE of the airfield, non towered airport, runway 18/36,
standard left pattern applies, with runway 36 the active. I'm
interested in hearing what your personal method of joining the pattern
would be, while adhering to the FAR's and AIM.

I've two thoughts:

Fly south, then west, pass overhead the field, and then 2 or 3 miles
later do a descending 225 degree right turn, and join on a 45 degree
to downwind, or

Stay east and then south of the airport, and join a straight in
outside 5 sm.

Opinions?

Stan

wrote in message
...

Steven, thanks for the reply. Assuming you're vfr, and not off an ifr
approach, are your suggesting to proceed southwest at pattern altitude
and join downwind with a 45 degree or so left turn?
after all, all turns to the left when approaching to land!
Just looking for some ideas on what considered acceptable.


Yup.

Forget about everything but safety. Flying over the center of the field 500
feet (or more) above pattern altitude keeps you away from everyone taking
off and landing...they are, after all, at field elevation. You get a good
look at planes on final and those rolling for takeoff. Then flying away from
the pattern and descending to pattern altitude well away from the pattern is
the safest solution to the problem you posed. Maneuvering, saving time,
saving gas...all take a back seat to safety.

Same thing applies at many controlled fields. Ask the controller for
permission to cross the airport and you will most likely be told to cross
midfield at 2500 feet or so...that's the way they do it at Seattle-Tacoma,
anyway. Hard to hit a jet when it has its wheels on the runway and you are
way up there.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
...
But the first seems much more manoeuvring, possible preventing as good
a look out as the second option. I'm actually wondering if the second
seems more practicle.

Stan

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:26:54 -0800, "Bob Gardner"
wrote:

I like your first solution better than the second. Having said that,
neither
the regs nor the AIM provide much guidance in the situation you describe.
Look at Advisory Circular 90-66A for more relevant information.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
. ..
Consider you're NE of the airfield, non towered airport, runway 18/36,
standard left pattern applies, with runway 36 the active. I'm
interested in hearing what your personal method of joining the pattern
would be, while adhering to the FAR's and AIM.

I've two thoughts:

Fly south, then west, pass overhead the field, and then 2 or 3 miles
later do a descending 225 degree right turn, and join on a 45 degree
to downwind, or

Stay east and then south of the airport, and join a straight in
outside 5 sm.

Opinions?

Stan