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#191
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The Revolution Will Not Be Televised wrote: On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:08:58 GMT, Vince Brannigan wrote: I'm just back from Glasgow. Remission of sentence is a wonderful thing. Hey Glasgow's always fun and I got to go to Dundee and see the RRS DISCOVERY and the HMS UNICORN, not to mention the site of the Tay bridge disaster. I'm trying to cook up a deal to help advise them on fire safety in historic ships. Vince |
#192
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"Vince Brannigan" wrote in message ... "Whereas originally the name Cymry seems to have shared the same British'/`Welsh' ambiguity of Britannia, Britones and so forth, by the late eleventh century it is likely that Cymry was used solely to denote the Welsh' and `Wales', being distinguished more clearly from the qually long-established terms Brython and Prydain, which denoted `Britons' and "Britain' respectively.(108) One could perhaps go further and argue that the change in Latin terminology both reflected and helped to reinforce an increasing assumption on the part of Welsh literati of a need to distinguish more sharply between the twin elements in national identity, namely, between a British dimension which defined the Welsh in relation to the past and the future and, on the other hand, a Welsh dimension which linked them to a specific territorial space in the present.(109) British or Welsh? National Identity in Twelfth-Century Wales(*). You're left with horribly complex ideas about the pre Roman natives of the British archipelago and their relationship with a wider Western European culture. Did the 'British' tribes see themselves as part of a culture that extended beyond their shores or did they see themselves as tribal where 'the people' ended at the forest. In reality the idea of the 'nation state' emerged in Western Europe in the fifteenth century, a good illustration being the Hundred Years War which started as a fight between feudal magnates and ended as a war between England and France. -- William Black ------------------ On time, on budget, or works; Pick any two from three |
#193
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William Black wrote: In reality the idea of the 'nation state' emerged in Western Europe in the fifteenth century, a good illustration being the Hundred Years War which started as a fight between feudal magnates and ended as a war between England and France. nation states had of course emerged elsewhere at earlier times. Nations , the latin "gens "had a long-standing albeit complex development process. Vince |
#194
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On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:08:58 GMT, Vince Brannigan
wrote: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised wrote: The myths of the American revolution, however, are fundamental to American self-image and the definition of American culture and society in a manner that nobody can claim for Robin Hood in the UK. I'm not so sure. (although, I agree about Robin Hood). I'm just back from Glasgow. I stood in a crowded pub in Shawlands for the Scotland Lithuania match and then the England Turkey match. Yes I know they are drunken footy fans, but the invocation of anti-english mythology was fascinating. When the Scots started suggesting that the Turks break English necks I inquired as to the basis of the hostility. They were mildly surprised that a Yank wouldn't "hate the buggers as much as we do". When I mildly suggested compound fractures of the English legs would be sufficient and that permanent paralysis was unnecessary, it was simlply accepted that I didn't understand just how deep Scotland's grievances ran. The mythology of Culloden was invoked, as well as more recent events dealing tieh sporitng contests that I was not aware of. IIRC Further discussion followed after bioremediation of flammable ethanol, but I'm not sure we advanced the ball any further. Vince Sounds rather like Southerners talking about the "Yankees". No real hatred, but a casual, traditional demeaning. Al Minyard |
#196
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On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:20:51 GMT, Vince Brannigan
wrote: I'm just back from Glasgow. Remission of sentence is a wonderful thing. Hey Glasgow's always fun It's alright, Vince, you're back in civilization now. No need to make patently ridiculous PublicRelationStatements in order to get out of mob of wegians alive. and I got to go to Dundee and see the RRS DISCOVERY and the HMS UNICORN, I used to live in Dundee, but I missed out on Unicorn. Discovery was interesting, if only to check out the officer's berths and reflect on the Edwardian class divide. Scott used to rope off the messes in huts in the Antarctic as well, which I find a little distasteful with my modern sensibilities, but was probably a simple reflection of the times with no specifically demeaning intent. I have to say I always preferred Shackleton myself, especially after reading about his small boat journey from Elephant Island as a kid. That was a _real_ sea story. not to mention the site of the Tay bridge disaster. Victorian engineering at it's best. For full authenticity don't forget to recite McGonagall as you cross it courtesy of Scotrail. I'm trying to cook up a deal to help advise them on fire safety in historic ships. Tell Captain Haddock to put his pipe out. That should cut down the premiums straight away. Gaviin Bailey -- "Will Boogie Down For Food".- Sign held by Disco Stu outside the unemployment office. |
#197
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#198
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"Vince Brannigan" wrote in message ... William Black wrote: In reality the idea of the 'nation state' emerged in Western Europe in the fifteenth century, a good illustration being the Hundred Years War which started as a fight between feudal magnates and ended as a war between England and France. nation states had of course emerged elsewhere at earlier times. Nations , the latin "gens "had a long-standing albeit complex development process. Those tended to be city states that got big or were the product of a single man driven to build an empire. The nation state, with the co-incident 'national identity' is later, and still with us. -- William Black ------------------ On time, on budget, or works; Pick any two from three |
#199
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Olivers wrote in message ...
Brian Sharrock muttered.... I imagine that a book about 'The Patriot' would finish on Page 6, then have three-hundred -and seventy pages of Historic Corrections" Two of the historical figures from whom Mel Gibson's part was drawn were grandsires (multi-great) of mine. One was a man apparently acutely harsh to the puir Native Americans, while the other weighed in at a solid 300 pounds, disenabling him in an attempt to walk to a major engagement. Happily, a substantial mule was available. Nothing of either (aside from commitment and courage/fool-hardy rashness) is apparent in the screenplay or the Gibsonian interpretation thereof. Hornblower and Sharpe (novels) are poles apart from the idiocy and pure propagandising of 'The Patriot'. Let me commend to your reading the novels of Kenneth Roberts covering the American expereience 1755-1800 or so. While hardly bodice rippers, actually demure by modern lubricious standards, they are well done, if not a little slanted toward the "American" perspective. _Rabble in Arms_, first read when I was eight or so, struggling with a real adult novel, remains quite readable to day, and his descriptions of the travails of Rogers and his Rangers provide a new and unusual view of the French & Indian Conflict. On the Boston issue....Could one interpret Britsh policy toward continued or re occupation as based upon the concept that Boston unoccupied was no threat, easily - and cheaply in men and money - guarded/blockaded from the sea, and likely should other strategies succeed to fall gently into British hands, the cold harsh mercantilism of the upper classes swallowing up all those radical revolutionaries? It probably was. But since at that time Maine was part of Massecusetts, then as now, nobody but the *British* Military really cared all that much about Boston mercantilism. |
#200
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"William Black" wrote in message ...
"Vince Brannigan" wrote in message ... William Black wrote: In reality the idea of the 'nation state' emerged in Western Europe in the fifteenth century, a good illustration being the Hundred Years War which started as a fight between feudal magnates and ended as a war between England and France. nation states had of course emerged elsewhere at earlier times. Nations , the latin "gens "had a long-standing albeit complex development process. Those tended to be city states that got big or were the product of a single man driven to build an empire. The nation state, with the co-incident 'national identity' is later, and still with us. The nation state is almost as old as the hills, look at Egypt, Assyria, Israel, and Babylon of biblical times. These were established nation states with national identities, dynastic rulers over long periods, and are even reflected in modern states. I would agree that the principle of Greco Roman states were city based, although in later years the Roman state changed from the city based concept to that of the true nation state. Even in Europe many of the modern states were well established as nation states by the end of the first millenia. Peter |
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