A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Instrument Flight Rules
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

How do I fly this approach?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old March 19th 09, 08:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
a[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 562
Default How do I fly this approach?

On Mar 19, 1:08*pm, wrote:
On Mar 19, 9:42*am, a wrote:





On Mar 15, 5:34*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:


Kindly take a look at the ILS runway 26 approach to Astoria (KAST). *I tried
to fly this in my sim and I'm not at all sure that I did it correctly..


In my case, this is what I did: *I was on V187 from Seattle at 6000.. *Once I
was within 25 nm of AST, I descended to 4300. *About 12 nm away from AST, I
turned roughly north and flew back out to 19 DME from AST, then turned east to
follow the 19 DME arc until I was within a few degrees of the localizer
course. *At that point I started a turn towards the localizer and armed the
autopilot, which captured the localizer and glide slope immediately and took
over. *About a mile away from the airport I disengaged the AP and flew the
landing by hand.


Was this correct? *I'm confused by the references to the NDB and the pointers
towards the east and the procedure turn. *Do I have multiple options for this
approach? *Was the way I flew it one of them? *Or what?


I almost thought that maybe I was supposed to fly to the VOR then outbound to
the NDB then make a procedure turn and come back in. *But the DME arc had IAFs
at each end so I finally figured I could just come in towards the VOR then fly
back out to the arc and finally turn towards the airport, which is what I did.


There is absolutely nothing ambiguous about this approach. *Any rated
pilot, from 50 miles out at 6000 feet on V187 would not be happy to
hear center say "Cleared ILS 26, report to the tower at the outer
marker inbound" but would know what to do. It would be the same thing
we would do had we lost radio communication and our last clearance was
to that airport. Have you any clue as to why we would not be happy to
get that clearance?


What would YOU do? And provide references.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Apparently I don't understand the question. *This approach does not
seem to be unusual, and your scenario would not make me unhappy
(unless you just don't like doing full approaches).

Maurice Givens
CSEL, CSES, CMEL, CFI-A, CFI-I, AGI, IGI
CAP Check Pilot- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The question was directed to the OP, Maury. Consider again the
clearance and your position. My own preference is to not have to hurry
down from en route altitudes.
  #22  
Old March 19th 09, 09:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default How do I fly this approach?

On Mar 19, 2:28*pm, a wrote:
On Mar 19, 1:08*pm, wrote:





On Mar 19, 9:42*am, a wrote:


On Mar 15, 5:34*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:


Kindly take a look at the ILS runway 26 approach to Astoria (KAST). *I tried
to fly this in my sim and I'm not at all sure that I did it correctly.


In my case, this is what I did: *I was on V187 from Seattle at 6000. *Once I
was within 25 nm of AST, I descended to 4300. *About 12 nm away from AST, I
turned roughly north and flew back out to 19 DME from AST, then turned east to
follow the 19 DME arc until I was within a few degrees of the localizer
course. *At that point I started a turn towards the localizer and armed the
autopilot, which captured the localizer and glide slope immediately and took
over. *About a mile away from the airport I disengaged the AP and flew the
landing by hand.


Was this correct? *I'm confused by the references to the NDB and the pointers
towards the east and the procedure turn. *Do I have multiple options for this
approach? *Was the way I flew it one of them? *Or what?


I almost thought that maybe I was supposed to fly to the VOR then outbound to
the NDB then make a procedure turn and come back in. *But the DME arc had IAFs
at each end so I finally figured I could just come in towards the VOR then fly
back out to the arc and finally turn towards the airport, which is what I did.


There is absolutely nothing ambiguous about this approach. *Any rated
pilot, from 50 miles out at 6000 feet on V187 would not be happy to
hear center say "Cleared ILS 26, report to the tower at the outer
marker inbound" but would know what to do. It would be the same thing
we would do had we lost radio communication and our last clearance was
to that airport. Have you any clue as to why we would not be happy to
get that clearance?


What would YOU do? And provide references.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Apparently I don't understand the question. *This approach does not
seem to be unusual, and your scenario would not make me unhappy
(unless you just don't like doing full approaches).


Maurice Givens
CSEL, CSES, CMEL, CFI-A, CFI-I, AGI, IGI
CAP Check Pilot- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


The question was directed to the OP, Maury. Consider again the
clearance and your position. My own preference is to not have to hurry
down from en route altitudes.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


O.K., you're at 6000 ft on V187, AST defines V187, there is a feeder
from AST to KARPEN and you're allowed to descend to 4300 ft. on the
feeder. The feeder is 12.3 mi from AST to KARPEN. I think I can lose
1700 ft in 12.3 mi., do the procedure turn and intercept. Am I
missing something? This does not appear to be that difficult.


Maurice Givens
CSEL, CSES, CMEL, CFI-A, CFI-I, AGI, IGI
CAP Check Pilot


  #23  
Old March 19th 09, 11:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default How do I fly this approach?

a writes:

There is absolutely nothing ambiguous about this approach. Any rated
pilot, from 50 miles out at 6000 feet on V187 would not be happy to
hear center say "Cleared ILS 26, report to the tower at the outer
marker inbound" but would know what to do. It would be the same thing
we would do had we lost radio communication and our last clearance was
to that airport. Have you any clue as to why we would not be happy to
get that clearance?

What would YOU do? And provide references.


From what I've learned thus far (not here, alas!), I would proceed at my
altitude of 6000 feet to AST, and turn from there towards the PEN NDB, one of
the three IAFs for the approach. After crossing PEN, I would descent to 4300
while making a procedure turn to intercept the ILS localizer. I would then
follow the published lateral and vertical profile until I was fully
established.

I'm not sure why this would make me unhappy.
  #24  
Old March 19th 09, 11:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default How do I fly this approach?

a writes:

The question was directed to the OP, Maury. Consider again the
clearance and your position. My own preference is to not have to hurry
down from en route altitudes.


At a ground speed of 120 knots, with a maximum of ten miles within which to
descend from 6000 feet to 4300 feet, I would need a descent rate of 340 fpm,
which is easily achievable. With a 40-knot tailwind at 120 KIAS (not
inconceivable in this case), I would need a descent rate of 453 fpm, still
easy to achieve.
  #25  
Old March 20th 09, 12:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Beauciphus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 65
Default Troll Alert

Troll Alert


  #26  
Old March 20th 09, 12:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Viperdoc[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 95
Default How do I fly this approach?

Why would anyone care if something makes you happy or unhappy?

You've stated many times that there are no experienced instrument pilots
here, so why do you keep bothering us with your moronic questions?


  #27  
Old March 20th 09, 01:03 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Beauciphus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 65
Default How do I fly this approach?

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
You've stated many times that there are no experienced instrument pilots
here, so why do you keep bothering us with your moronic questions?


Five letters, starts with a T


  #28  
Old March 20th 09, 01:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default How do I fly this approach?

Viperdoc writes:

Why would anyone care if something makes you happy or unhappy?

You've stated many times that there are no experienced instrument pilots
here, so why do you keep bothering us with your moronic questions?


Stalking is evidence of a personality disorder. Personality disorders are
disqualifying conditions for airman medical certification.
  #29  
Old March 20th 09, 02:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Viperdoc[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 95
Default How do I fly this approach?

I'd have to check the FAR's regarding personality disorders, but I do know
that I have a Class II medical- how about yours? What class medical do you
have, and what aviation ratings?

What do you know about personality disorders other than your own? Are you a
trained medical practitioner or psychologist? Do you have a medical sim game
that goes along with MSFS?

Having trouble climbing into the treehouse?


  #30  
Old March 20th 09, 08:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Sam Spade
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,326
Default How do I fly this approach?

wrote:
On Mar 19, 2:28 pm, a wrote:

On Mar 19, 1:08 pm, wrote:






On Mar 19, 9:42 am, a wrote:


On Mar 15, 5:34 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:


Kindly take a look at the ILS runway 26 approach to Astoria (KAST). I tried
to fly this in my sim and I'm not at all sure that I did it correctly.


In my case, this is what I did: I was on V187 from Seattle at 6000. Once I
was within 25 nm of AST, I descended to 4300. About 12 nm away from AST, I
turned roughly north and flew back out to 19 DME from AST, then turned east to
follow the 19 DME arc until I was within a few degrees of the localizer
course. At that point I started a turn towards the localizer and armed the
autopilot, which captured the localizer and glide slope immediately and took
over. About a mile away from the airport I disengaged the AP and flew the
landing by hand.


Was this correct? I'm confused by the references to the NDB and the pointers
towards the east and the procedure turn. Do I have multiple options for this
approach? Was the way I flew it one of them? Or what?


I almost thought that maybe I was supposed to fly to the VOR then outbound to
the NDB then make a procedure turn and come back in. But the DME arc had IAFs
at each end so I finally figured I could just come in towards the VOR then fly
back out to the arc and finally turn towards the airport, which is what I did.


There is absolutely nothing ambiguous about this approach. Any rated
pilot, from 50 miles out at 6000 feet on V187 would not be happy to
hear center say "Cleared ILS 26, report to the tower at the outer
marker inbound" but would know what to do. It would be the same thing
we would do had we lost radio communication and our last clearance was
to that airport. Have you any clue as to why we would not be happy to
get that clearance?


What would YOU do? And provide references.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Apparently I don't understand the question. This approach does not
seem to be unusual, and your scenario would not make me unhappy
(unless you just don't like doing full approaches).


Maurice Givens
CSEL, CSES, CMEL, CFI-A, CFI-I, AGI, IGI
CAP Check Pilot- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


The question was directed to the OP, Maury. Consider again the
clearance and your position. My own preference is to not have to hurry
down from en route altitudes.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



O.K., you're at 6000 ft on V187, AST defines V187, there is a feeder
from AST to KARPEN and you're allowed to descend to 4300 ft. on the
feeder. The feeder is 12.3 mi from AST to KARPEN. I think I can lose
1700 ft in 12.3 mi., do the procedure turn and intercept. Am I
missing something? This does not appear to be that difficult.


Maurice Givens
CSEL, CSES, CMEL, CFI-A, CFI-I, AGI, IGI
CAP Check Pilot


Why are you concerned with being at 4,300 at KARPEN eastbound? The
procedure turn completion altitude is also 4,300. Then, upon
intercepting the localizer at completion of procedure turn you have only
another 300 feet to descend to intercept the G/S.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ILS approach and VOR Alpha Approach video DOCTOR Mary Ellen Hall McIntire Yasay, Ph.D, (Div.) Piloting 3 May 22nd 08 01:52 PM
ILS approach and VOR Alpha Approach video [email protected] Instrument Flight Rules 10 May 22nd 08 02:15 AM
ILS approach and VOR Alpha Approach video [email protected] Piloting 4 May 17th 08 01:19 PM
Garmin 430 rquestion- does the approach always have to be activated via "activate approach"? Terence Wilson Instrument Flight Rules 46 February 18th 08 06:46 PM
Completing the Non-precision approach as a Visual Approach John Clonts Instrument Flight Rules 45 November 20th 03 06:20 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.