Hidden costs of ethenol

One point to consider when you complain about the price of corn is, $2.00
corn cannot be produced without taxpayer funded price supports, This morning
we could contract corn for December 07' delivery at $3.38 and you can cut
about 30 cents off that for various quality discounts. A farmer is not
getting rich on $3 corn with the much higher input cost we have had in the
past few years. Actually he still needs good weather and careful managment
to make anything. Bottom line, corn is still going to cost the consumer
either at the store or in taxes.
Second point, it was never planned to replace gasoline, just one of many
alternate energy sources and none of them are cheap. The days of cheap
energy are gone and anything that uses energy is going to cost more in the
future including food. I'm afraid food prices are just starting to go up and
will continue so.

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
k.net...
I am remimded of a quote that said, "when otherwise intelligent people
do stupid stuff, there is usually politics involved".

So not only do we pay more for less power in out auto fuel...


http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/20...nd-for-ethanol

william wrote:
snip
I'm afraid food prices are just starting to go up and
will continue so.


That really is the point I was reaching for.
Not just complaining about corn.

And as oil prices continue to rise we are going to be faced with some
difficult times and hard choices (like DRIVING to Osh?).

I mean, it's not just gasoline that is increasing, but everything that
is made from it, made with it, or transported.

And THAT includes just about everything.

So I'm really curious...
What comes next?


Richard

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
k.net...

I am remimded of a quote that said, "when otherwise intelligent people
do stupid stuff, there is usually politics involved".

So not only do we pay more for less power in our auto fuel...


http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/20...nd-for-ethanol

1. I had a guy walk up to me at the glider field and say, "I just put $300
worth of fuel in my C-182". "What does it cost to be a glider pilot?" (A
whole lot less, I told him)

2. I bought an old motorcycle that can replace 75% of my driving. It gets
55 MPG city driving.

3. I'm strongly advocating winch launch for gliders. ($5 launch = 5 hour
flight)

Obviously, gliders aren't an option if you need A to B transportation. But,
if you just fly for fun, gliders are a lot of fun for a lot less money.

Bill Daniels


"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
k.net...
william wrote:

So I'm really curious...
What comes next?


Richard

"Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message
. ..
1. I had a guy walk up to me at the glider field and say, "I just put $300
worth of fuel in my C-182". "What does it cost to be a glider pilot?" (A
whole lot less, I told him)

2. I bought an old motorcycle that can replace 75% of my driving. It gets
55 MPG city driving.

3. I'm strongly advocating winch launch for gliders. ($5 launch = 5 hour
flight)

Obviously, gliders aren't an option if you need A to B transportation.
But, if you just fly for fun, gliders are a lot of fun for a lot less
money.

Bill Daniels


"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
k.net...
william wrote:

So I'm really curious...
What comes next?


Richard



And as a certain vocal critic of SP/LSA always points out, with a motor
glider, you have almost all (maybe all?) the advantages of SP/LSA, with none
of the disadvantages.

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
k.net...
william wrote:
snip
I'm afraid food prices are just starting to go up and
will continue so.


That really is the point I was reaching for.
Not just complaining about corn.

And as oil prices continue to rise we are going to be faced with some
difficult times and hard choices (like DRIVING to Osh?).

I mean, it's not just gasoline that is increasing, but everything that
is made from it, made with it, or transported.

And THAT includes just about everything.

So I'm really curious...
What comes next?


Richard

As you pointed out: Just about everything.

IIRC, after the previous big increases in crude oil prices, we had several
years of high inflation in just about everything that wasn't already way up.
In my area, housing prices are already way up, so it's possible that houses
will be relatively flat while everything else, including rent, catches up
with fuel and real estate. Dunno, just a guess.

Of course, it takes until the end of current contracts for a lot of things
to happen so it will all take a while, as it always has...

Peter :-(

So I'm really curious...
What comes next?


Richard



And as a certain vocal critic of SP/LSA always points out, with a motor
glider, you have almost all (maybe all?) the advantages of SP/LSA, with
none
of the disadvantages.



An interesting point. Of course, I'm having an attack of "Sometimer's
Desease" and can't recall the subject line of the thread in which he
expounded the rationale...

Peter

One more thing I would like to point out on the corn- food-ethanol debate is
that making ethanol uses only the starch in corn. The protein is still there
and is used as a high quality feed, called dried distillers grains or DDG.
It is mostly feed to cattle. The most effecient ethanol plants have a feed
lot next to them and the solids are feed wet to the cattle saving the energy
usually used to dry the stuff. The cattle manure is used as a source of
methane for energy to run the ethanol plant. It still requires additional
energy, but every savings helps. There are other byproducts of the process
to, but my point is a lot of the corn still is used as food. The main study
the media likes to quote to discredit ethanol was done about 20 years ago
and is hopelessly out of date.

"william" wrote in message
news:Ezrgi.2194$s%.324@trnddc02...
One point to consider when you complain about the price of corn is, $2.00
corn cannot be produced without taxpayer funded price supports, This
morning we could contract corn for December 07' delivery at $3.38 and you
can cut about 30 cents off that for various quality discounts. A farmer is
not getting rich on $3 corn with the much higher input cost we have had in
the past few years. Actually he still needs good weather and careful
managment to make anything. Bottom line, corn is still going to cost the
consumer either at the store or in taxes.
Second point, it was never planned to replace gasoline, just one of many
alternate energy sources and none of them are cheap. The days of cheap
energy are gone and anything that uses energy is going to cost more in the
future including food. I'm afraid food prices are just starting to go up
and will continue so.

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
k.net...
I am remimded of a quote that said, "when otherwise intelligent people
do stupid stuff, there is usually politics involved".

So not only do we pay more for less power in out auto fuel...


http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/20...nd-for-ethanol

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:22:58 GMT, cavelamb himself
wrote:

william wrote:
snip
I'm afraid food prices are just starting to go up and
will continue so.


That really is the point I was reaching for.
Not just complaining about corn.

And as oil prices continue to rise we are going to be faced with some
difficult times and hard choices (like DRIVING to Osh?).

I mean, it's not just gasoline that is increasing, but everything that
is made from it, made with it, or transported.

And THAT includes just about everything.

So I'm really curious...
What comes next?



And in North america, virtually everything you eat, and much of what
you buy otherwise, has corn in it in one form or an other. Corn
starch, corn syrup etc. Using corn to make ethanol for fuel drives the
price of everything else made with corn up, as well as everything that
is an option to use in place of corn. A cousin works for a large
multinational cookie manufacturer. Over the last several months, the
ingredient costs have gone up 30%, mostly corn sweetener pricing, but
a lot of other stuff too, attributed to CORN PRICING.

WallMart and Loblaws have made it public they will NOT entertain any
price increses before the end of the year. Expect to see significant
fallout.
You think the "rest of the world" is ****ed about the US action on
oil????
This could be NOTHING compared to what may happen if the American
greed for corn makes food unaffordable in the poorer countries of the
world.
Richard

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
k.net...

I am remimded of a quote that said, "when otherwise intelligent people
do stupid stuff, there is usually politics involved".

So not only do we pay more for less power in our auto fuel...


http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/20...nd-for-ethanol





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message k.net...
william wrote:
snip
I'm afraid food prices are just starting to go up and will continue so.


That really is the point I was reaching for.
Not just complaining about corn.

And as oil prices continue to rise we are going to be faced with some
difficult times and hard choices (like DRIVING to Osh?).

I mean, it's not just gasoline that is increasing, but everything that
is made from it, made with it, or transported.

And THAT includes just about everything.

So I'm really curious...
What comes next?


Richard



It is not gasoline at the auto fuel pumps anymore; it is gasohol! The false labeling needs to stop. It seems that
everyone I say this to says, no, they have to label the pump, and I then correct them and tell them the requirement was
dropped by congress in 2005. They are getting lower energy fuel in the name of 'gasoline.' Most are initially somewhat
shocked, but then they fall back into their consumer mode and just keep on keeping on. Amazing there is not total
outrage about this issue...

"Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message . ..
1. I had a guy walk up to me at the glider field and say, "I just put $300 worth of fuel in my C-182". "What does it
cost to be a glider pilot?" (A whole lot less, I told him)

2. I bought an old motorcycle that can replace 75% of my driving. It gets 55 MPG city driving.

3. I'm strongly advocating winch launch for gliders. ($5 launch = 5 hour flight)

Obviously, gliders aren't an option if you need A to B transportation. But, if you just fly for fun, gliders are a
lot of fun for a lot less money.

Bill Daniels



5 hour glider flight off a $5 winch launch? Where are you and how long is the winch line?