A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Tales Of The Bloody Triangle



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old February 12th 21, 02:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 281
Default Tales Of The Bloody Triangle

On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 5:21:44 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Bob,
Boy am I glad I've figured out how to post on here. I sure do appreciate the wisdom you've passed on, even in my green state in soaring. Hopefully this comes through correctly. I'm looking forward to more tows and hopefully a paired flight on an out and back to get my feet wet. I'll be rereading your article from the wave flight in Florida on my way LAX-ATL to stay awake tonight. See ya buddy.


Jason, will not be long until the 40 year mark arrives from the date of that memorable flight. I can still vividly recall the beautiful sight being distant from the Florida coastline and looking down at the island of Bimini. I wish that everyone could have a flight like that, it is logged in the memory bank and will never be forgotten. Recalling some of the flights that we had out of Miami makes me appreciate the friends and acquaintances through decades of enjoyment. We were nothing but a bunch of renegades, that flew almost every day, hung our love of glider flight over the Everglades only to come home most of the time to laugh and get ready to go again the next day. One day I will bring our scrapbook out for you to scroll through and laugh, most of us were 50 pounds lighter except for Eileen and Scott, and possibly Burt, they seem to be the same. The good part about this group is that we all still to this day stay in contact and all still fly gliders, not bad after all these years .
Enjoy the LAX-ATL flight, welcome to the sport, I hope you enjoy it as much as Eileen and I have. Remember, the triangle is the most difficult. Bob
  #32  
Old February 13th 21, 09:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Chris Behm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Tales Of The Bloody Triangle

On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 4:03:27 PM UTC-8, Moshe Braner wrote:
On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 5:32:35 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 2/11/2021 12:56 PM:

This is what really ticks me off even a bit more than the" Apology", Turnpoint circles, at this age am having difficulty seeing where a turnpoint circle is any benefit to a triangular objective. What ever happened to the day when we took our 120 film and waited until the next day for the director to tell you that you did not make the turn. Liberalism has invaded the glider world, now you do not have to reach the turnpoint but just get close, hey, what are they doing, pitching hand grenades, only close counts. Hey, bring back the good ole days, start gate, turnpoint verification and the best guy wins. At this time I must say congratulations to GB for a nice triangle out of the Seminole Lake Motor Glider facility. Finally I see a triangle out of that place. I am so glad that I am having a positive influence on those guys. Bob

They used turnpoints you had to go to because they had no way of determining where you went
otherwise. They used to have observers at the turnpoints! And even when they began using
cameras, they had to have a point they could recognize on the film. They didn't choose that
turnpoint system because they liked it so much, or because it was "pure", but because they
could make it work. GPS changed what we could make work. Shoot, in the really old days - no
turnpoints! You just flew as far as you could.

You prefer the old system, but the new system has advantages, so that's what we use now. I
liked contest flying better when we had mostly assigned tasks, and we had to go to an actual
point, but that system had it's problems, and I can see changing it.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

The advantage of the Turn Area Tasks (also called Assigned Area Tasks) is that you can have a handicapped competition (Sports Class) where everybody flies the same (minimum) length of time but the higher performance gliders need to fly a longer distance. That was not possible to arrange before GPS flight logs. Some people don't like TATs or even handicapped competitions at all, so be it. On the other hand many people who want to fly in contests don't want to also have to compete with the purchasing power of richer pilots. Handicaps allow gliders of very different performance and price points to all have fun together. Given the declining number of people flying in contests, anything that attracts more of them is good for everybody.


This post seems like a really great point of view. Lower performance gliders making a smaller triangle inside of larger triangles made by a higher performance glider? What could be better? They are flying as near over the same terrain as each other, and can start and finish roughly in the same time. Seems like a real win-win to me. But I am a newbie, what do I know? Well, I know that if I am flying an LS4 I don't want to be competing directly with the 18m class over the same course. Seems logical to me. Again, a newbie with no competition experience, but this plan just makes sense to this newbie.
Kind Regards, and thanks for the interesting topic, Bob.
  #33  
Old February 13th 21, 11:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 281
Default Tales Of The Bloody Triangle

On Saturday, February 13, 2021 at 3:18:19 PM UTC-5, Chris Behm wrote:
On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 4:03:27 PM UTC-8, Moshe Braner wrote:
On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 5:32:35 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 2/11/2021 12:56 PM:

This is what really ticks me off even a bit more than the" Apology", Turnpoint circles, at this age am having difficulty seeing where a turnpoint circle is any benefit to a triangular objective. What ever happened to the day when we took our 120 film and waited until the next day for the director to tell you that you did not make the turn. Liberalism has invaded the glider world, now you do not have to reach the turnpoint but just get close, hey, what are they doing, pitching hand grenades, only close counts. Hey, bring back the good ole days, start gate, turnpoint verification and the best guy wins. At this time I must say congratulations to GB for a nice triangle out of the Seminole Lake Motor Glider facility. Finally I see a triangle out of that place. I am so glad that I am having a positive influence on those guys. Bob

They used turnpoints you had to go to because they had no way of determining where you went
otherwise. They used to have observers at the turnpoints! And even when they began using
cameras, they had to have a point they could recognize on the film. They didn't choose that
turnpoint system because they liked it so much, or because it was "pure", but because they
could make it work. GPS changed what we could make work. Shoot, in the really old days - no
turnpoints! You just flew as far as you could.

You prefer the old system, but the new system has advantages, so that's what we use now. I
liked contest flying better when we had mostly assigned tasks, and we had to go to an actual
point, but that system had it's problems, and I can see changing it.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

The advantage of the Turn Area Tasks (also called Assigned Area Tasks) is that you can have a handicapped competition (Sports Class) where everybody flies the same (minimum) length of time but the higher performance gliders need to fly a longer distance. That was not possible to arrange before GPS flight logs. Some people don't like TATs or even handicapped competitions at all, so be it. On the other hand many people who want to fly in contests don't want to also have to compete with the purchasing power of richer pilots. Handicaps allow gliders of very different performance and price points to all have fun together. Given the declining number of people flying in contests, anything that attracts more of them is good for everybody.

This post seems like a really great point of view. Lower performance gliders making a smaller triangle inside of larger triangles made by a higher performance glider? What could be better? They are flying as near over the same terrain as each other, and can start and finish roughly in the same time. Seems like a real win-win to me. But I am a newbie, what do I know? Well, I know that if I am flying an LS4 I don't want to be competing directly with the 18m class over the same course. Seems logical to me. Again, a newbie with no competition experience, but this plan just makes sense to this newbie.
Kind Regards, and thanks for the interesting topic, Bob.


Chris, don't sell yourself short on experience or glider performance, and do NOT let the big 18 meter ships fool you. One bad turn and your LS4 will have that long wing dog wondering what happened. Don't look at it as flying smaller triangles inside theirs, but fly the same or near the same and you will be surprised at how well you do compared to the big dog. I enjoy going out and flying a nice triangle in a pure glider and watching the guys from the motor glider group up in Clermont run up and down the Florida ridge following hwy 27.
I must admit that I am in their heads, just recently ZOey and the boys are hell bent on flying triangles, just look at what I accomplished, it is all in good fun. Being a bit more serious, the triangle with close to equal leg distances should be weighed more heavily than those Ivy League triangles where you have two long legs and a short hop, skip and jump third leg.
Enjoy the LS4, they are a very nice flying glider that will give you many memorable flights.
  #34  
Old February 14th 21, 12:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default Tales Of The Bloody Triangle

wrote on 2/13/2021 2:34 PM:
On Saturday, February 13, 2021 at 3:18:19 PM UTC-5, Chris Behm wrote:
On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 4:03:27 PM UTC-8, Moshe Braner wrote:
On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 5:32:35 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 2/11/2021 12:56 PM:

This is what really ticks me off even a bit more than the" Apology", Turnpoint circles, at this age am having difficulty seeing where a turnpoint circle is any benefit to a triangular objective. What ever happened to the day when we took our 120 film and waited until the next day for the director to tell you that you did not make the turn. Liberalism has invaded the glider world, now you do not have to reach the turnpoint but just get close, hey, what are they doing, pitching hand grenades, only close counts. Hey, bring back the good ole days, start gate, turnpoint verification and the best guy wins. At this time I must say congratulations to GB for a nice triangle out of the Seminole Lake Motor Glider facility. Finally I see a triangle out of that place. I am so glad that I am having a positive influence on those guys. Bob

They used turnpoints you had to go to because they had no way of determining where you went
otherwise. They used to have observers at the turnpoints! And even when they began using
cameras, they had to have a point they could recognize on the film. They didn't choose that
turnpoint system because they liked it so much, or because it was "pure", but because they
could make it work. GPS changed what we could make work. Shoot, in the really old days - no
turnpoints! You just flew as far as you could.

You prefer the old system, but the new system has advantages, so that's what we use now. I
liked contest flying better when we had mostly assigned tasks, and we had to go to an actual
point, but that system had it's problems, and I can see changing it.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
The advantage of the Turn Area Tasks (also called Assigned Area Tasks) is that you can have a handicapped competition (Sports Class) where everybody flies the same (minimum) length of time but the higher performance gliders need to fly a longer distance. That was not possible to arrange before GPS flight logs. Some people don't like TATs or even handicapped competitions at all, so be it. On the other hand many people who want to fly in contests don't want to also have to compete with the purchasing power of richer pilots. Handicaps allow gliders of very different performance and price points to all have fun together. Given the declining number of people flying in contests, anything that attracts more of them is good for everybody.

This post seems like a really great point of view. Lower performance gliders making a smaller triangle inside of larger triangles made by a higher performance glider? What could be better? They are flying as near over the same terrain as each other, and can start and finish roughly in the same time. Seems like a real win-win to me. But I am a newbie, what do I know? Well, I know that if I am flying an LS4 I don't want to be competing directly with the 18m class over the same course. Seems logical to me. Again, a newbie with no competition experience, but this plan just makes sense to this newbie.
Kind Regards, and thanks for the interesting topic, Bob.


Chris, don't sell yourself short on experience or glider performance, and do NOT let the big 18 meter ships fool you. One bad turn and your LS4 will have that long wing dog wondering what happened. Don't look at it as flying smaller triangles inside theirs, but fly the same or near the same and you will be surprised at how well you do compared to the big dog. I enjoy going out and flying a nice triangle in a pure glider and watching the guys from the motor glider group up in Clermont run up and down the Florida ridge following hwy 27.
I must admit that I am in their heads, just recently ZOey and the boys are hell bent on flying triangles, just look at what I accomplished, it is all in good fun. Being a bit more serious, the triangle with close to equal leg distances should be weighed more heavily than those Ivy League triangles where you have two long legs and a short hop, skip and jump third leg.
Enjoy the LS4, they are a very nice flying glider that will give you many memorable flights.


Would you fly bigger triangles, and faster, if you knew you could easily motor home on the
occasional day you misjudged the weather? Would you take off earlier, if you knew you could
"relight" without getting into the back of the hour+ queue for the towplane? Just a sustainer
would give you those advantages, less cost, less weight, less maintenance than a self-launcher.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #35  
Old February 14th 21, 06:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jason Leonard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Tales Of The Bloody Triangle

Mr Greenwell,
I am with you. However, TCSC doesn't really have a queue problem with the tow plane, which in itself is a bit of a problem. We either have no one flying or everyone is out there chomping at the bit. But even then the towplane availability always seems to be a good situation. The only time the self launch will benefit me at this club will be if no one is around to haul my fat bird in the air. My goal is the be there often enough that both situations arise and I'm proficient in both. I didn't buy an airplane to let it sit.. I know that's a typical statement. I'll be darned if it sits.

I guess I'm a wimp to a degree, too, though. I am green to gliders, and I want to launch as early as possible and extract every last foot I can get -- even if it means standing still and not going anywhere. So if I get pulled up to altitude too early and there's nothing the SkySight refresh and motor over to the good stuff. If I get high enough to soar home: awesome. If not: so be it and I'll motor high enough to glide home. I won't be missing opportunities to soar if I can help it. My goal is to fly more than the entire club combined. Big ambition, but with our local soaring weather, and the fantastic stuff that always seems to be 20 miles away from us: I think the self launch is going to enable me to enjoy this more often.

I don't get to pass up a marginal soaring day because "it isn't worth it" - If I can go flying, I want to be able to go where the soarable weather is, and then glide home if possible. Otherwise: back to FL390 and 500kts.... booooorrrring! "oh great.... another passenger not wearing a mask...." lol

If anyone comes to the TCSC event in a 2 seater, or wants to go with me in the DG505 then I'm all about it. I got a 2 seater to share the experience. And maybe sometimes that can be in reverse.

Speaking of which: Bob I don't care - I want you to go up with me buddy. Humor me and come for a ride in my adultized and fat DG! Haha!

JL
  #36  
Old February 14th 21, 01:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 281
Default Tales Of The Bloody Triangle

On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 12:08:14 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Mr Greenwell,
I am with you. However, TCSC doesn't really have a queue problem with the tow plane, which in itself is a bit of a problem. We either have no one flying or everyone is out there chomping at the bit. But even then the towplane availability always seems to be a good situation. The only time the self launch will benefit me at this club will be if no one is around to haul my fat bird in the air. My goal is the be there often enough that both situations arise and I'm proficient in both. I didn't buy an airplane to let it sit. I know that's a typical statement. I'll be darned if it sits.

I guess I'm a wimp to a degree, too, though. I am green to gliders, and I want to launch as early as possible and extract every last foot I can get -- even if it means standing still and not going anywhere. So if I get pulled up to altitude too early and there's nothing the SkySight refresh and motor over to the good stuff. If I get high enough to soar home: awesome. If not: so be it and I'll motor high enough to glide home. I won't be missing opportunities to soar if I can help it. My goal is to fly more than the entire club combined. Big ambition, but with our local soaring weather, and the fantastic stuff that always seems to be 20 miles away from us: I think the self launch is going to enable me to enjoy this more often.

I don't get to pass up a marginal soaring day because "it isn't worth it" - If I can go flying, I want to be able to go where the soarable weather is, and then glide home if possible. Otherwise: back to FL390 and 500kts.... booooorrrring! "oh great.... another passenger not wearing a mask...." lol

If anyone comes to the TCSC event in a 2 seater, or wants to go with me in the DG505 then I'm all about it. I got a 2 seater to share the experience.. And maybe sometimes that can be in reverse.

Speaking of which: Bob I don't care - I want you to go up with me buddy. Humor me and come for a ride in my adultized and fat DG! Haha!

JL


JL, sorry my friend but I do NOT fly motorgliders, this is my take on motorgliders! If there was a book written about glider pilots and motorgliders it would be called, "Motorgliders For Sissies", now don't take that too personal, but they just are not and should not be in the same class as the purist. Now I can hear all the motorglider guys and gals cursing me about my comments and thoughts on this somewhat inferior class of glider flight.
Have I ever been in a situation where I could have used a sustainer, YES, but they were not around back in those days. I still remember the warden of a state prison looking at me as if I were one of the inmates when I sat my glider down on the prison grounds while trying to complete my first 300 K triangle over 40 years ago. I recently was told by a good guy and fellow glider pilot that one of these days I would have a motorglider. I laughed and told him that if he ever saw me in my motorglider that I would give it to him, I hope that I don't have to eat those words someday, but if I do I will be the first one to write an apology and explain why I went to the dark side.
Your enthusiasm is addictive, you will certainly enjoy your new motorglider and soon you will be departing X52 on a nice triangle or journey around Lake O.
  #37  
Old March 12th 21, 01:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 281
Default Tales Of The Bloody Triangle

On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 7:43:30 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 12:08:14 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Mr Greenwell,
I am with you. However, TCSC doesn't really have a queue problem with the tow plane, which in itself is a bit of a problem. We either have no one flying or everyone is out there chomping at the bit. But even then the towplane availability always seems to be a good situation. The only time the self launch will benefit me at this club will be if no one is around to haul my fat bird in the air. My goal is the be there often enough that both situations arise and I'm proficient in both. I didn't buy an airplane to let it sit. I know that's a typical statement. I'll be darned if it sits.

I guess I'm a wimp to a degree, too, though. I am green to gliders, and I want to launch as early as possible and extract every last foot I can get -- even if it means standing still and not going anywhere. So if I get pulled up to altitude too early and there's nothing the SkySight refresh and motor over to the good stuff. If I get high enough to soar home: awesome.. If not: so be it and I'll motor high enough to glide home. I won't be missing opportunities to soar if I can help it. My goal is to fly more than the entire club combined. Big ambition, but with our local soaring weather, and the fantastic stuff that always seems to be 20 miles away from us: I think the self launch is going to enable me to enjoy this more often.

I don't get to pass up a marginal soaring day because "it isn't worth it" - If I can go flying, I want to be able to go where the soarable weather is, and then glide home if possible. Otherwise: back to FL390 and 500kts..... booooorrrring! "oh great.... another passenger not wearing a mask...." lol

If anyone comes to the TCSC event in a 2 seater, or wants to go with me in the DG505 then I'm all about it. I got a 2 seater to share the experience. And maybe sometimes that can be in reverse.

Speaking of which: Bob I don't care - I want you to go up with me buddy.. Humor me and come for a ride in my adultized and fat DG! Haha!

JL

JL, sorry my friend but I do NOT fly motorgliders, this is my take on motorgliders! If there was a book written about glider pilots and motorgliders it would be called, "Motorgliders For Sissies", now don't take that too personal, but they just are not and should not be in the same class as the purist. Now I can hear all the motorglider guys and gals cursing me about my comments and thoughts on this somewhat inferior class of glider flight.
Have I ever been in a situation where I could have used a sustainer, YES, but they were not around back in those days. I still remember the warden of a state prison looking at me as if I were one of the inmates when I sat my glider down on the prison grounds while trying to complete my first 300 K triangle over 40 years ago. I recently was told by a good guy and fellow glider pilot that one of these days I would have a motorglider. I laughed and told him that if he ever saw me in my motorglider that I would give it to him, I hope that I don't have to eat those words someday, but if I do I will be the first one to write an apology and explain why I went to the dark side.
Your enthusiasm is addictive, you will certainly enjoy your new motorglider and soon you will be departing X52 on a nice triangle or journey around Lake O.



I am very pleased to have made an impact on the motorglider professionals at Seminole Lake Motor Glider event for the Geritol pilots. My good friend Nico just complete two days in a row of 300 k triangles with pretty much even legs to set the pace for the upcoming Seniors contest held at the Motor Glider Club in Clermont . Nico, way to go, unlike last year I did not fly on this March 11th. I have a little surprise for all you motor glider geeks at the Seniors, you and the rest of those big bogs will be once again shaking their heads saying, " Where The Hell Did He Come From"! I might even ask Eileen if I can borrow her 24 and give her my 27, just to give you guys a better advantage.
As you probably know tomorrow will begin the Soaring Safari here at the Treasure Coast Soaring Club, here in Vero Beach. I am the primary tow pilot and refreshment provider,, I just loaded up at ABC liquors for our traditional purist drink of rum and coke. We are even having gourmet hot dogs for all, so you self launch ladies can come on in have a dog and motor out to your hovel in Clermont.
I wish all of you guys well, just keep looking at those daily scores and at some point you will say, we woke him up! Have a great contest, look up on any given day and you might just see yours truly, and I will buy the drinks.. Bob
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Comics, pt 6 - Tales of the Air.jpg (1/1) Mitchell Holman[_9_] Aviation Photos 0 December 13th 18 02:51 PM
Tales of being distracted by scenery and/or euphoria while soaring son_of_flubber Soaring 12 March 11th 14 12:12 AM
Icing...some cautionary tales Bob Gardner Piloting 0 January 24th 08 11:04 PM
mmmm Total bloody Tossers? [email protected] Aviation Photos 9 July 14th 07 03:46 AM
Bloody Hell! Michael Baldwin, Bruce Products 0 May 28th 07 08:29 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.