Cost of ownership????

On 2007-03-21, Lou wrote:
I'm looking for a spreadsheet that I can plug
the numbers into. Has anyone either made this

I even put it on the web:

http://www.ben.com/flying/costown.html

mmm, fuel is actually DOWN since I last updated it!

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD

http://www.ben.com/

On Mar 21, 1:42 pm, Jon Kraus wrote:
Lou,

It varies tremendously but the one constant is that airplane ownership
is EXPENSIVE when compared against renting. That is unless you fly 200
hours a year (most pilots average 50-75 hours a year).

I don't know about other folks but I have owned for only 3 years so I
don't have much experience but here is what I found.

For a 2 way partnership in a 100k Mooney it costs me about 1000 a month
to fly 5 hours a month. This includes all my fixed costs of $575 (plane
note, hanger rent, XM weather subscription and insurance). We charge
ourselves $85 per tach hour wet. This includes engine reserve, fuel and
some cash put back for annual inspection expenses.

Our first 3 annual's averaged $5000. We have had several times in the
last 3 years where we have had to shell out $1000 here and $1000 there
for things that broke. We like to keep the plane squawk-free so this
could have been cheaper.

Here is the sad part. For me I have come to the realization that I don't
want to shell out this much cash for flying anymore and am offering my
partner the buy-out deal of a lifetime. I am going back to renting but
will probably take a break from flying all together.

Good luck with whatever you do but realize that it will cost you a LOT
more money to own than to rent. That is just a plain and simple fact.

Jon Kraus



Lou wrote:
I (like everyone else) am considering purchasing a plane. I've looked
up the cost of ownership in this group and came up with some good
information. However, I'm looking for a spreadsheet that I can plug
the numbers into. Has anyone either made this or know where to
download one? It's probebly not hard to do but I thought I would look
here first. Anybody? Anybody? Anybody?
Lou- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Its true that owning almost always costs more than renting. However,
the benefit of owning is having a plane set up the way you want it.
There are a lot of reasons to own a plane but none of them are
financial.
-Robert

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:25:47 -0600, "Jim Burns"
wrote:

AOPA has a couple worksheets on their ownership/partnership page.
Just yesterday I figured our ownership & operating costs for the Aztec over
the past 2.5 years.
I didn't hit the floor too hard.
Jim

snip

Usually when a prospective owner talks to me about how much it costs
to own/fly, I tell them to go to the bank, get $500 ($1000 for a twin)
in $20's and come back out to the hangar some day when the wind is
calm.

I tell them that if they cannot make a nice little bonfire on the ramp
out of the cash, turn and walk away with a smile on their face and no
regrets, in my opinion they are not truly ready for the costs of
owning a tyoe-certificated airplane.

The funny part is that most of them think I'm kidding...

TC

wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:25:47 -0600, "Jim Burns"
wrote:


AOPA has a couple worksheets on their ownership/partnership page.
Just yesterday I figured our ownership & operating costs for the Aztec over
the past 2.5 years.
I didn't hit the floor too hard.
Jim


snip

Usually when a prospective owner talks to me about how much it costs
to own/fly, I tell them to go to the bank, get $500 ($1000 for a twin)
in $20's and come back out to the hangar some day when the wind is
calm.

I tell them that if they cannot make a nice little bonfire on the ramp
out of the cash, turn and walk away with a smile on their face and no
regrets, in my opinion they are not truly ready for the costs of
owning a tyoe-certificated airplane.

The funny part is that most of them think I'm kidding...

TC


That's funny. I came to a similar conclusion. I could just as easily
throw $10 or $20 out the window every day of the year and be about even
for the year. That does not include the fuel.

I was appalled at the airshares offer I received in the mail. I was
going to talk to the rep about how ridiculously they priced their rates.
Then I started evaluating how much it REALLY costs me to own/operate
my own plane... Well, airshares started looking A LOT better.

I stopped tracking my costs. HEad in the sand for now with me.

On Mar 21, 7:20 am, "Lou" wrote:
I (like everyone else) am considering purchasing a plane. I've looked
up the cost of ownership in this group and came up with some good
information. However, I'm looking for a spreadsheet that I can plug
the numbers into. Has anyone either made this or know where to
download one? It's probebly not hard to do but I thought I would look
here first. Anybody? Anybody? Anybody?
Lou


With apologies to Jack Nicholson: "I can't handle the truth!"

There are very few absolute truisms in life. I believe I know two of them:

1. If it flies, floats, or fornicates it is far cheaper to rent.

2. If it has tires, tits, or testicles it will eventually give you trouble.


Having said that, you don't need a $100K Super Bugsmasher as your first
airplane. There are tens of thousands of elderly 150s, 172s, Cherokees, and
the like that may not have the sex appeal of a 200 knot bent-gear aircraft,
but they will not eat your pocketbook for lunch either.

You don't need a hopped up 172 with a 200 horse twisty prop to get you to
your Sunday fly-in. The elderly 150 may not get you there in fifteen
minutes ... might take half an hour ... but 90% of the fun of a fly-in is
getting there. Same with most of life.

Depending on whether you are a low wing wimp or a high wing manly guy, you
can start off with a Tripacer (Piper's Milkstool) and work your way up
through the ranks over the years to what you can afford. You may have the
milkstool your whole career. That's the way it goes. Same with a 150 (or a
120/140 if you are a tailwheel kinda guy) and work your way up through the
170/172 series.

Yeah, after 40 years of the 120-170-172 gig I've got a 182. It keeps me on
the edge of poverty, but it is what I can afford. Do I drool at 210s?
Sure. But I didn't jump into a Citation while the ink was still wet on my
private.

Jim



"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Lou,

It varies tremendously but the one constant is that airplane ownership is
EXPENSIVE when compared against renting. That is unless you fly 200 hours
a year (most pilots average 50-75 hours a year).

On Mar 22, 9:26 am, "RST Engineering" wrote:
they will not eat your pocketbook for lunch either.

You don't need a hopped up 172 with a 200 horse twisty prop to get you to
your Sunday fly-in. The elderly 150 may not get you there in fifteen
minutes ... might take half an hour ... but 90% of the fun of a fly-in is
getting there.

And you get to log more time.
-Robert

Thanks for the advice guys, I'm looking at a Grumman yankee. It's
affordable, quick enough
for a first plane, and the reason for the partner is purely cost. I
know I don't fly everyday, and there
is plenty of time to share an airplane.
Lou

On Mar 22, 10:14 am, "Lou" wrote:
Thanks for the advice guys, I'm looking at a Grumman yankee. It's
affordable, quick enough
for a first plane, and the reason for the partner is purely cost. I
know I don't fly everyday, and there
is plenty of time to share an airplane.
Lou

A partnership is a great way to own a plane. The hard part is getting
a partner with similar opinions on things such as upgrades,
maintenance, etc. Many times I've agreed to pay for 1/2 of something I
really didn't care to get but do it for the good of the partnership.
For me, the biggest reason to be in a partnership isn't cost but
rather usage. Flying a plane 50 hours a year is really hard on the
plane, hard on the engine, etc. Planes need to be flying and having a
partner can keep the plane in the air.

-Robret

"Tim" wrote in message...
"If you have to ask..."

It costs a lot. The airshares program seems to be reasonably set up. At
first glance it seems expensive though. They did the work for
you/everyone. Check out their pricing. If you can't afford at least a
third to half of that program, you probably have to walk away or find more
co-owners.

http://www.airshareselite.com/airpor...escription.pdf

It is a commitment to own a plane.


Wow! If I did my homework correctly, it would cost over 70k for the first
year to fly for only 100 hours.
Comparing that to my average rental cost of a new C182 with G1000 I would be
able to fly over
600 hours in that same year.

I guess I'll wait till I win the lottery.

David