Contact Approach -- WX reporting

Newps wrote:

So you're saying that the controllers are the weather observers there?
That would put it in a gray area. The book states that weather must be
available. If you received the clearance before the tower closed that
would be OK.


The book states only that "The reported ground visibility is at least 1
statute mile." The gray area is whether the last hourly observation is
still valid 15 minutes after the weather observer departs. It isn't
yet time for another hourly observation, but he isn't there to issue a
special observation if weather conditions change significantly.



Flight viz is irrelavant. The determining factor is reported ground viz.


The book (FAAO 7110.65) also states, "When executing a contact
approach, the pilot is responsible for maintaining the required flight
visibility, cloud clearance, and terrain/obstruction clearance." It
doesn't provide a hint where the requirement for flight visibility can
be found, however. The AIM states in paragraph 5-4-24 that pilots must
have at least one mile flight visibility, but it also states the
following in Flight Information Publication Policy:

"This publication, while not regulatory, provides information which
reflects examples of operating techniques and procedures which may be
requirements in other federal publications or regulations. It is made
available solely to assist pilots in executing their responsibilities
required by other publications."

wrote:

It was briefly mentioned in one of the longer threads that a contact
approach requires 1 sm reported ground visibility. It reminded me that
I had flown a contact approach some 8 months ago to an airport about 15
minutes after the tower had closed (there is no automated weather
available) and couldn't land because fog and low clouds had rolled in.

So did approach control screw up? I'm sure they had the last ATIS
report some 70 to 80 minutes old at the time of my request, and the
weather was good in that report.


If the tower had closed just fifteen minutes earlier approach may have
had a weather observation less than 30 minutes old.



Interestingly, both the AIM and the 7110.65 say that a requirement for
ATC authorization of a contact approach is that "The reported ground
visibility is at least 1 statute mile."

But the AIM starts out by saying: "Pilots operating in accordance with
an IFR flight plan, provided they are clear of clouds and have at least
1 mile flight visibility and can reasonably expect to continue to the
destination airport in those conditions, may request ATC authorization
for a contact approach."


Well, a reported ground visibility of at leats one statute mile and a
flight visibility of at least one statute mile are not mutually
exclusive. While ground visibility can be determined quite accurately,
flight visibility is just a guess.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
wrote:

So did approach control screw up? I'm sure they had the last ATIS
report some 70 to 80 minutes old at the time of my request, and the
weather was good in that report.


If the tower had closed just fifteen minutes earlier approach may have
had a weather observation less than 30 minutes old.

Well, the tower doesn't issue a new ATIS (on the recording) just before
they leave, but I suppose they probably do make a weather report that
goes to FSS. I'm not sure if that ends up at the ARTCC or not. But
they are not there to issue a special observation after they leave,
which is when the fog rolled in.

So I'd guess that for this clearance to have been "proper" the weather
observers would have to still be there and ready to issue a special
regardless of how old the last scheduled observation was. But, from
the discussion so far, it appears that such a requirement is not
actually spelled out in the regs.



Interestingly, both the AIM and the 7110.65 say that a requirement for
ATC authorization of a contact approach is that "The reported ground
visibility is at least 1 statute mile."

But the AIM starts out by saying: "Pilots operating in accordance with
an IFR flight plan, provided they are clear of clouds and have at least
1 mile flight visibility and can reasonably expect to continue to the
destination airport in those conditions, may request ATC authorization
for a contact approach."


Well, a reported ground visibility of at leats one statute mile and a
flight visibility of at least one statute mile are not mutually
exclusive. While ground visibility can be determined quite accurately,
flight visibility is just a guess.

Yes, but I found it interesting that the AIM specifically says that a
pilot may request a contact approach (flight viz 1) in conditions
when the controller may not approve it (ground viz 1). I suppose
that wording is left over from the days when the controller had more
access to weather observations than the pilot?

wrote:

Yes, but I found it interesting that the AIM specifically says that a
pilot may request a contact approach (flight viz 1) in conditions
when the controller may not approve it (ground viz 1). I suppose
that wording is left over from the days when the controller had more
access to weather observations than the pilot?

That could also be in there because these new Super AWOS machines do not
normally report the weather. We have an airport in our airspace with
one of these machines and I have no idea what the machine is reporting.
But even though I don't know what it is it is legal weather for the pilot.