ATC Handling of Low-Fuel American Flight

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 05:41:03 -0800, Sam Spade wrote
(in article ):


http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/Vi...dId=122817&cat

Id=104

It appears somebody forgot what pilot in command means.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

C J Campbell wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 05:41:03 -0800, Sam Spade wrote
(in article ):


http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/Vi...dId=122817&cat


Id=104


It appears somebody forgot what pilot in command means.


Actually, at least two people forgot.

Matt

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:58:51 -0800, Matt Whiting wrote
(in article ):

C J Campbell wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 05:41:03 -0800, Sam Spade wrote
(in article ):


http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/Vi...vidId=122817&c
at


Id=104


It appears somebody forgot what pilot in command means.


Actually, at least two people forgot.

Indeed. Well, stuff happens when you get distracted by an emergency. ATC
needed to retrain their staff, but I hope that the chief pilot had a little
prayer meeting with the crew.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 05:41:03 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:

http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/Vi...2817&catId=104

Doesn't that give you a warm fuzzy feeling?


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 05:41:03 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:


http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/Vi...2817&catId=104


Doesn't that give you a warm fuzzy feeling?

Not exactly.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 05:17:59 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:

Roger wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 05:41:03 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:


http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/Vi...2817&catId=104


Doesn't that give you a warm fuzzy feeling?

Not exactly.

Aw, come on now. Just look at all the thoughtful people involved.

You have an ATP who is willing to fly around the airport to make
things easier on the controller even though he may be about to run out
of fuel with 100 plus passenger on board. You have approach calling
the tower to inform them the pilot would like 17, but doesn't want to
worry them with the though of a low fuel "situation" and a tower
controller who guides the "troubled" plane around the airport to keep
them out of the way of regular traffic.

However: You would think the ATP would at least have a bit of self
preservation in mind.

One of our local pilots in a 172 was coming back from down south on an
IFR flight plan when the engine swallowed a slug of ice. She was
shaking badly and didn't appear to be getting better., He declared an
emergency and ATC told every one else "shoo". Airliners and all
cleared out to make way for him. He landed without incident and made
it to the FBO. After setting for a while it ran fine. The verdict was
carb ice and all concerned told him he did the right thing. The tower
guys told him "good job", kinda like when you put it where they want
at Oshkosh:-))

As others have said, you, not the tower chief or any one else owns
that airport after having said those magic words declaring an
emergency.

If it's me "up there" and something goes wrong, I'm not too proud to
holler for help. We'll sort out the paper work later if there is any.
In the case of the 172 above, he didn't have to fill out anything.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

If the aircrew "needed to get on the ground right away", why did they
overfly other suitable airports? That action alone could have suggested to
ATC that this wasn't that big an issue. Love Field has equipment to deal
with air carrier class aircraft and they flew right past it even after being
asked about landing there.

I'm not advocating the actions of ATC here, but I am suggesting that the
crew acted in a manner contrary to what they were saying.

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...
http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/Vi...2817&catId=104

Jim Carter wrote:
If the aircrew "needed to get on the ground right away", why did they
overfly other suitable airports? That action alone could have suggested to
ATC that this wasn't that big an issue. Love Field has equipment to deal
with air carrier class aircraft and they flew right past it even after being
asked about landing there.

I'm not advocating the actions of ATC here, but I am suggesting that the
crew acted in a manner contrary to what they were saying.


That is difficult to say. Perhaps he was sufficently higher passing
Love that it would have taken more time to land there.

An example I am familar with is passing Ontario Airport on the way into
Los Angeles. You are usually at 14,000 feet passing Ontario and on a
fuel efficent profile to land at LAX. That is a judgment call that can
go either way.

I wouldn't second guess his decision to stick with a company airport
that may have been on the best fuel-efficient descent profile.

It is part of the review that I am sure was conducted about his
decisions. Nonetheless, at the time, that decision was not for anyone
in ATC to question. Only after the fact was it reasonable to determine
what, in fact, were the nearest suitable airports.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news

That is difficult to say. Perhaps he was sufficently higher passing Love
that it would have taken more time to land there.

An example I am familar with is passing Ontario Airport on the way into
Los Angeles. You are usually at 14,000 feet passing Ontario and on a fuel
efficent profile to land at LAX. That is a judgment call that can go
either way.

I wouldn't second guess his decision to stick with a company airport that
may have been on the best fuel-efficient descent profile.

It is part of the review that I am sure was conducted about his decisions.
Nonetheless, at the time, that decision was not for anyone in ATC to
question. Only after the fact was it reasonable to determine what, in
fact, were the nearest suitable airports.


DAL would have been only about 4 miles closer that DFW, but DFW has about
4600' more runway.

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
t...

If the aircrew "needed to get on the ground right away", why did they
overfly other suitable airports?


What other suitable airports did they overfly?



That action alone could have suggested to ATC that this wasn't that big an
issue. Love Field has equipment to deal with air carrier class aircraft
and they flew right past it even after being asked about landing there.


Which way were they landing at DAL?