Make Sailplane Racing Great Again

On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 2:01:31 PM UTC-5, Craig Reinholt wrote:
On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 9:53:51 AM UTC-8, wrote:
You've said it best, there are lots of "tough nuts to crack."

I very much respect that you are not in denial. Essentially your statistics show a decline of almost 50% in soaring. That's sad.

In another 10 years, we will be lucky to even have the minimum entrants to have a race.

I get it, not everyone likes racing. People own ferrari's but don't necessarily want to race them. There's the cost of repairs from a wreck, etc.. Likewise, not everyone who owns an ASG-29 wants to take a couple weeks off or a national race.

But we need to be asking those who are NOT interested in racing "Why are you not interested?"

There you will find the answers.

Sean,
Say you're 42 years old glider pilot. Have a loving spouse. Two kids. $100,000 annual family income. Three weeks vacation. House payments, college savings account, Friday night pizza. How many families will burn 33% to 67% vacation time and a lot of money on a competition? How many of the spouses and children love to go to a hot, dusty, out of the way airport for said soaring getaway? Certainly, most would prefer to be on the beach in FL, HA, or perhaps Disney World/Land and would be very vocal in that decision. An understandable tough sell on the part of the glider pilot to attend the Nationals or even Regionals.
Competition.... consider other sports. How many high school basketball, baseball, or tennis players compete locally in leagues at 40+ years old? The percentage is low.
In my club, there are about 4% regular competition pilots. Because we've pushed cross country the past few years, we have raised the percentage of regular XC pilots from about 8% to 20%. The remaining pilots come out for an afternoon outing within gliding distance of the gliderport. That is all the the soaring they want to do.
Regarding competition, a few at the club will go for a few years and then not participate for a few years. No matter how hard we sell how fun competition is, the average XC pilot doesn't buy into it for a plethora of reasons which have already been stated in multiple threads on RAS.
Your enthusiasm for competition is understandable, but please put yourself first in the shoes of the average glider pilot when carrying on about contest participation.

Craig - Completly agree with your points, only exception is that those of us in what i refer to as the "dark ages" (21 to 55) of soaring are only the average because there are some 15 year olds kicking around to offset the retirees. After pondering this problem for a few years, I think that it is just unrealistic to expect any substantial number of "dark age" pilots with younger children and still working up up the job ladder to participate in the sport.

Many of the pilots in the "golden era" of soaring were able to experience the sport when there were more than 4-5 producers competing in soaring, the strength of the dollar was significantly higher, and society was far different. Those pilots and their immediate successors are in a large part the current nucleus of the sport, and seem to be largely unable to appreciate the difference in current economic and time constraints that the next generation faces.

The answer is obvious. We need a national fleet of loaner ASG 29s for dark age pilots. Buy the gliders and dark age pilots will race them.
On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 2:43:27 PM UTC-5, Giaco wrote:
On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 2:01:31 PM UTC-5, Craig Reinholt wrote:
On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 9:53:51 AM UTC-8, wrote:
You've said it best, there are lots of "tough nuts to crack."

I very much respect that you are not in denial. Essentially your statistics show a decline of almost 50% in soaring. That's sad.

In another 10 years, we will be lucky to even have the minimum entrants to have a race.

I get it, not everyone likes racing. People own ferrari's but don't necessarily want to race them. There's the cost of repairs from a wreck, etc. Likewise, not everyone who owns an ASG-29 wants to take a couple weeks off or a national race.

But we need to be asking those who are NOT interested in racing "Why are you not interested?"

There you will find the answers.

Sean,
Say you're 42 years old glider pilot. Have a loving spouse. Two kids. $100,000 annual family income. Three weeks vacation. House payments, college savings account, Friday night pizza. How many families will burn 33% to 67% vacation time and a lot of money on a competition? How many of the spouses and children love to go to a hot, dusty, out of the way airport for said soaring getaway? Certainly, most would prefer to be on the beach in FL, HA, or perhaps Disney World/Land and would be very vocal in that decision. An understandable tough sell on the part of the glider pilot to attend the Nationals or even Regionals.
Competition.... consider other sports. How many high school basketball, baseball, or tennis players compete locally in leagues at 40+ years old? The percentage is low.
In my club, there are about 4% regular competition pilots. Because we've pushed cross country the past few years, we have raised the percentage of regular XC pilots from about 8% to 20%. The remaining pilots come out for an afternoon outing within gliding distance of the gliderport. That is all the the soaring they want to do.
Regarding competition, a few at the club will go for a few years and then not participate for a few years. No matter how hard we sell how fun competition is, the average XC pilot doesn't buy into it for a plethora of reasons which have already been stated in multiple threads on RAS.
Your enthusiasm for competition is understandable, but please put yourself first in the shoes of the average glider pilot when carrying on about contest participation.

Craig - Completly agree with your points, only exception is that those of us in what i refer to as the "dark ages" (21 to 55) of soaring are only the average because there are some 15 year olds kicking around to offset the retirees. After pondering this problem for a few years, I think that it is just unrealistic to expect any substantial number of "dark age" pilots with younger children and still working up up the job ladder to participate in the sport.

Many of the pilots in the "golden era" of soaring were able to experience the sport when there were more than 4-5 producers competing in soaring, the strength of the dollar was significantly higher, and society was far different. Those pilots and their immediate successors are in a large part the current nucleus of the sport, and seem to be largely unable to appreciate the difference in current economic and time constraints that the next generation faces.

Before sailplane racing can be great it must first be decent and viable. Great is a long way off. Great is the result. By focusing on the result will not achieve the goal. A goal is attained when we have a process and take an honest look at our assets and liabilities and are open to solution.

Does the sailplane community have a consensus definition of what a great contest is? There are probably as many unique answers as people responding. What might be a better questions is what are the components of a great contest? These can be real or fantastic wishes.

It is helpful to know why people fly contests too. Camaraderie; bragging rights; change of scenery; whatever they might wish.

Why do we hold contests? This matters too. The SSA was formed to hold a National contest to choose a National Champion; do we still need to do this and do we really care if we have a Champion. Team selections; do we need contests to do this and are contests the best way to prepare a team for international competition?


Does the contest model need to change? Maybe gathering in one place to fly and heading out OLC style to rack up as many miles as we can is the way to go; maybe not. Again, what are we trying to accomplish with a contest. Maybe this won’t prepare the US for international comps but do we really care and if not, why bend the contest model for potentially 10.000 pilots to suit the ambitions of ten?

The sailplane community must also become supportive of each other. As a group we can be pretty negative and are quick to point out the weak points of a glider, class, rule, etc.. Many ideas which are new and presented here are quickly ****ed upon. Denigrating or dismissing someone’s enthusiasm is a sure way to chase them off. Most of the negativity on this forum pertains to contests. If I was a new and interested contest pilot, reading this forum would help me decide to spend my time and money somewhere else.

Who are contests trying to attract? Pilots are an aging population and if we want to attract a younger generation having the FOGs make the rules and formats might be attractive to the old guys but not the twenty and thirty somethings.

Maybe the Junior Champions should be chosen with Condor. Put is online as viewer entertainment and we can all watch. E sport viewing is the fastest growing and most profitable sector of the entertainment industry. Find a sponsor and put up prize money and have a big time with it.

Maybe anyone, pilots and non-pilots, can enter and racing can take place at any time. The tasks and weather are pre determined and it can be flown whenever the pilot wishes. The weather will be fair, the gliders will be fair, the pilots can be comfortable and even stop the flight to eat, sleep, or use the bathroom.

Sailplane racing and even soaring as recreation might just be another niche activity.

I wish you the best of luck and skill in achieving your goal.

What a valid statement regarding the definition of great.

Here's my view of what a "Great" Sailplane race is.

1. A national contest for one class that is SOLD OUT, with a waiting list.

2. A contest so simple that you can explain how to win within 2 minutes or less to any pilot.

3. A national winner who competed against a group of 75 pilots in their class as opposed to a small elite group of 12 who now gets to represent the United States of America at the world contest.

4. A contest where you can watch this live on the internet and minute by minute see who is in first place.

5. A contest run so well their are activities and enjoyment for families to cheer on their pilot while he is up and away, and down on the ground. Very few pilots are single with no kids, theirs got to be "things to do" for the non aviators.

If this was in fact a real problem then why are the first 2 contests on the SSA calendar SOLD OUT (over 60 pilots) with a waiting list???

I tried to fly Nephi last year, but having been out of soaring for so long, I had no seeding points, denied. I am seriously thinking of Uvalde but six days on the road (3 there 3 back home) to fly 3 or 4 hours in the best part of the day, not as big a draw for me as Nephi fly-in or Parowan fly-in.

Perhaps if we had more "camps" and good soaring sites that would help participation in soaring in general which leads to more racing.


On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 6:44:54 AM UTC-8, wrote:
What a valid statement regarding the definition of great.

Here's my view of what a "Great" Sailplane race is.

1. A national contest for one class that is SOLD OUT, with a waiting list..

2. A contest so simple that you can explain how to win within 2 minutes or less to any pilot.

3. A national winner who competed against a group of 75 pilots in their class as opposed to a small elite group of 12 who now gets to represent the United States of America at the world contest.

4. A contest where you can watch this live on the internet and minute by minute see who is in first place.

5. A contest run so well their are activities and enjoyment for families to cheer on their pilot while he is up and away, and down on the ground. Very few pilots are single with no kids, theirs got to be "things to do" for the non aviators.

On Sunday, 5 March 2017 06:43:08 UTC-7, Kevin Brooker wrote:
Before sailplane racing can be great it must first be decent and viable.
Great is a long way off. Great is the result. By focusing on the result
will not achieve the goal. A goal is attained when we have a process and
take an honest look at our assets and liabilities and are open to
solution.

Does the sailplane community have a consensus definition of what a great
contest is? There are probably as many unique answers as people
responding. What might be a better questions is what are the components
of a great contest? These can be real or fantastic wishes.

It is helpful to know why people fly contests too. Camaraderie; bragging
rights; change of scenery; whatever they might wish.

Why do we hold contests? This matters too. The SSA was formed to hold a
National contest to choose a National Champion; do we still need to do
this and do we really care if we have a Champion. Team selections; do we
need contests to do this and are contests the best way to prepare a team
for international competition?


Does the contest model need to change? Maybe gathering in one place to
fly and heading out OLC style to rack up as many miles as we can is the
way to go; maybe not. Again, what are we trying to accomplish with a
contest. Maybe this won’t prepare the US for international comps but do
we really care and if not, why bend the contest model for potentially
10.000 pilots to suit the ambitions of ten?

The sailplane community must also become supportive of each other. As a
group we can be pretty negative and are quick to point out the weak
points of a glider, class, rule, etc.. Many ideas which are new and
presented here are quickly ****ed upon. Denigrating or dismissing
someone’s enthusiasm is a sure way to chase them off. Most of the
negativity on this forum pertains to contests. If I was a new and
interested contest pilot, reading this forum would help me decide to
spend my time and money somewhere else.

Who are contests trying to attract? Pilots are an aging population and
if we want to attract a younger generation having the FOGs make the
rules and formats might be attractive to the old guys but not the twenty
and thirty somethings.

Maybe the Junior Champions should be chosen with Condor. Put is online
as viewer entertainment and we can all watch. E sport viewing is the
fastest growing and most profitable sector of the entertainment
industry. Find a sponsor and put up prize money and have a big time with
it.

Maybe anyone, pilots and non-pilots, can enter and racing can take place
at any time. The tasks and weather are pre determined and it can be
flown whenever the pilot wishes. The weather will be fair, the gliders
will be fair, the pilots can be comfortable and even stop the flight to
eat, sleep, or use the bathroom.

Sailplane racing and even soaring as recreation might just be another
niche activity.

I wish you the best of luck and skill in achieving your goal.




--
Kevin Brooker

Many well thought out points.

One side that many folks forget; what about the organizers? What is in it for them? Why do they do it? How can more locations come on line for contests, camps or fly-ins?

For me personally I have been involved with planning and running a few events; LOgan and Nephi UT and also scoring at Hobbs and the worlds in Uvalde. The SSA sanctioned regionals and nationals are difficult to run well and correctly due to many specialized resources needed to meet the rules requirements.

Is it best to focus on more participants or to get more locations? Also there are very few location in the West left holding SSA sanctioned events.

E-/_Sports _/- Hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... ..

Sit in a chair, have a beer, get up and take a (to be civil) bathroom
beak, take a nap, continue the rugged contest to a hard-earned win!
You're a champ! Here's your participation trophy! But wait! He/She/It
had a faster computer than I did. I protest! It was unfair! I'm going
to my safe space...

But then I'm a FOG. What did you expect? Is it April 1 yet?

On 3/5/2017 6:21 AM, Kevin Brooker wrote:
Before sailplane racing can be great it must first be decent and viable.
Great is a long way off. Great is the result. By focusing on the result
will not achieve the goal. A goal is attained when we have a process and
take an honest look at our assets and liabilities and are open to
solution.

Does the sailplane community have a consensus definition of what a great
contest is? There are probably as many unique answers as people
responding. What might be a better questions is what are the components
of a great contest? These can be real or fantastic wishes.

It is helpful to know why people fly contests too. Camaraderie; bragging
rights; change of scenery; whatever they might wish.

Why do we hold contests? This matters too. The SSA was formed to hold a
National contest to choose a National Champion; do we still need to do
this and do we really care if we have a Champion. Team selections; do we
need contests to do this and are contests the best way to prepare a team
for international competition?


Does the contest model need to change? Maybe gathering in one place to
fly and heading out OLC style to rack up as many miles as we can is the
way to go; maybe not. Again, what are we trying to accomplish with a
contest. Maybe this won’t prepare the US for international comps but do
we really care and if not, why bend the contest model for potentially
10.000 pilots to suit the ambitions of ten?

The sailplane community must also become supportive of each other. As a
group we can be pretty negative and are quick to point out the weak
points of a glider, class, rule, etc.. Many ideas which are new and
presented here are quickly ****ed upon. Denigrating or dismissing
someone’s enthusiasm is a sure way to chase them off. Most of the
negativity on this forum pertains to contests. If I was a new and
interested contest pilot, reading this forum would help me decide to
spend my time and money somewhere else.

Who are contests trying to attract? Pilots are an aging population and
if we want to attract a younger generation having the FOGs make the
rules and formats might be attractive to the old guys but not the twenty
and thirty somethings.

Maybe the Junior Champions should be chosen with Condor. Put is online
as viewer entertainment and we can all watch. E sport viewing is the
fastest growing and most profitable sector of the entertainment
industry. Find a sponsor and put up prize money and have a big time with
it.

Maybe anyone, pilots and non-pilots, can enter and racing can take place
at any time. The tasks and weather are pre determined and it can be
flown whenever the pilot wishes. The weather will be fair, the gliders
will be fair, the pilots can be comfortable and even stop the flight to
eat, sleep, or use the bathroom.

Sailplane racing and even soaring as recreation might just be another
niche activity.

I wish you the best of luck and skill in achieving your goal.





--
Dan, 5J

5J,

Your proposal has been received and duly noted that: For those pilots racing via the condor app, they must submit a sealed, signed, notched, notarized statement from TWO Officials Observers that have at least 3 years experience working with the FAI to verify the processing speed of the computer.

A "fair" handicap for processor speeds will be applied to the scores after the race.

Further consideration will go to their respective joystick, and determine the penalties associated with that if the joystick has a vibration system to alert the pilot when entering a strong thermal (aka "the bump"), those systems will uniformly be given a 2% additional handicap.

Best ,

WW

Soartech,

Excellent point that 2 contests are filled up. Perhaps extreme listening should be given to what makes these races great?

But don't just stop your research there, look at the numbers from a broad sampling, not just a cherry pick of the two most popular in the entire USA.

Btw, neither of those two are a National contest. Sad.


Why does California, on of the greatest states in the Country, have a terrible turnout for racing? What gives out there? They have a dismal attendance for races. The state is so huge, and vast, and has often incredible conditions for 1,000 km flights!!!