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Make Sailplane Racing Great Again



 
 
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  #61  
Old March 9th 17, 11:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Default Make Sailplane Racing Great Again

Ok, for you and Wilbur, I have been around the sport for many years (started in the early/mid 70's).

Did the basic, kid learns to fly, starts getting away from airport, does off airport landings, gets license, eventually becomes CFIG to "give back to the sport", worked on badges (gold "C" with 2 diamonds, all from SE NY), numerous regionals, a few nationals. I would go XC in a 1-26 just as often as an ASG-29, I didn't care, I was flying.

I don't fly contests right now, haven't for maybe 6 years.

Why?

To start, it has NOTHING to do with the contest rules then or now. Period.
A lot was time, my job entailed a lot of work travel, this meant when home, I had things that needed to be done, wife that wanted to spend time with me (imagine that), 2 kids that wanted to do things with me (also imagine that).

We did all go to our airport, wife would do some things with other wives while I flew, my kids would fly with me, one got to the point of getting a private glider license.
Kids ended up doing other things, I still didn't fly as much as I wanted/needed.
I flew enough to "be safe", marginal on being decent on XC, no where near what I consider good enough to be competing, both for myself as well as others in the air I was flying with.

I either own or have access to a great selection of aircraft. With enough current flying, I would like to compete again, I do enjoy the flying as well as being with the majority of the contest crowd. This is the pilots, their families and all the people on the ground that put on a contest.
I started contests when we all had sectionals with rings on them for distance, cameras as flight proof, waiting hours as film was developed, most people didn't have electric varios (I thought an audio vario was VERY cool to have!). Last contest had GPS, flight computers and moving maps, FLARM, again, really cool stuff.

So, for me (again, read my background), to make "soaring great again" has absolutely NOTHING to do with rules that we used to use or currently use.

I can't/won't speak for others, I can only speak for myself.

I will say that I'm glad I fly in a club that PROMOTES XC and badge flying.
I'm also glad I have the aircraft access that I have.

Maybe if more locations do what our club does as well as ACA, HHSC and others, it can turn things around.

But I think the "broad brush stroke" of what is wrong with the sport is just as wrong. That is my opinion though.

..
  #62  
Old March 10th 17, 03:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
ND
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Default Make Sailplane Racing Great Again

i think the Junior contest is a step in the right direction. one of the things that really juiced me when i was a junior member at harris hill was making alot of friends. soaring became a social thing. damn, Nik got his rating already! i better work on that . Holy ****! corey just finished his silver C, and he's not even old enough for a private license yet, i better get some cross country instruction.

juniors have boundless energy and time. they don't have alot of money though ususally. but the SSA subsidy for juniors really helps with that. the benevolence of those willing to lend gliders helps alot too. i think bringing these kids together for an event will get several of them motivated to stick with it, especially when a few of the advanced juniors show the others what a junior can achieve.

i also think FAI handicapped contests are good, as well as the club class. i flew my 20 in the 15m nationals, because it was FAI handicapped. i didn't have to be able to afford a 29, or a V2bx to be competitive. at the same time, i'm flying the club class nationals every year, which seems to have been well attended. it just makes being competitive more affordable. most people who race usually do so, because they aspire to place well. if they don't they will do well because of their equipment they won't want to compete. that's why i dont take my 20 to the open class nationals.

look at what the 20m 2 seat class will do to open class participation... an arcus is perfectly capable of winning against the traditional open class birds, and to be sure, they have made up a large portion of the open class field in the last few years.

so another thing we should do is reduce the number of new classes we are creating, if we feel that it will cannibalize participation in other classes. one could argue that creating the club class detracted from sports class participation, which i agree with to a certain extent, but i still think that one was a good move actually.
  #63  
Old March 12th 17, 05:33 PM
Kevin Brooker Kevin Brooker is offline
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Default

This is an interesting topic. What seems to be a commonality to many who have stopped competing is the time required to do so. It is possible to make more money but once a unit of time is spent it is gone. Unlike bank account or earning potential we all have a finite amount of time to use.

If sailplane racing is to become great again the efficient use of time must be a cornerstone when planning.

Ironically, sailplanes spend almost all of their time in the trailer compared to in the air. Maybe finding and sharing local gliders will reduce the time and expense of trailering across the country. It is much less expensive to pay someones insurance bill then haul a trailer from one coast to the next and back again.

When I've borrowed gliders for contests I am significantly more careful then flying my own ship. Let the insurance companies bear the risk of damage. Isn't this why we have insurance.

Having something for family to do besides hang out at the airport might make it simpler to burn family time for a contest.

Hold big national contests every other year so there is a chance to bank vacation time from work.

Make it simpler to host smaller, more local contests with less prestige and pressure to do well.

Find other formats (start when you want, bracket racing, etc) which many will deem unfair but might allow more participation.

Relay races around a shorter course. Run my leg and I can leave if time is limited. Encourage more team events so a pilot can still participate but fly a few days during a long contest.

Sailplane pilots are fairly intelligent and should be able to find creative ways to make contests fun.
  #64  
Old March 12th 17, 10:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 478
Default Make Sailplane Racing Great Again

Making sailplane racing popular sounds like putting on a good sailplane encampment. Can o worms opened. Encampments compete with 'real' races for pilot's attendance. Would Wilbur be happy with a robust encampment scene? One could pretend they are racing everyone else. Do we want more and better flying. Or more and better flying with tin trophies?
On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 3:43:07 PM UTC-4, Kevin Brooker wrote:
This is an interesting topic. What seems to be a commonality to many who
have stopped competing is the time required to do so. It is possible to
make more money but once a unit of time is spent it is gone. Unlike bank
account or earning potential we all have a finite amount of time to use.


If sailplane racing is to become great again the efficient use of time
must be a cornerstone when planning.

Ironically, sailplanes spend almost all of their time in the trailer
compared to in the air. Maybe finding and sharing local gliders will
reduce the time and expense of trailering across the country. It is much
less expensive to pay someones insurance bill then haul a trailer from
one coast to the next and back again.

When I've borrowed gliders for contests I am significantly more careful
then flying my own ship. Let the insurance companies bear the risk of
damage. Isn't this why we have insurance.

Having something for family to do besides hang out at the airport might
make it simpler to burn family time for a contest.

Hold big national contests every other year so there is a chance to bank
vacation time from work.

Make it simpler to host smaller, more local contests with less prestige
and pressure to do well.

Find other formats (start when you want, bracket racing, etc) which many
will deem unfair but might allow more participation.

Relay races around a shorter course. Run my leg and I can leave if time
is limited. Encourage more team events so a pilot can still participate
but fly a few days during a long contest.

Sailplane pilots are fairly intelligent and should be able to find
creative ways to make contests fun.




--
Kevin Brooker


  #65  
Old March 14th 17, 04:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Bojack J4
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Posts: 29
Default Make Sailplane Racing Great Again

Very well stated, Chip. I've always thought of you as one of the icons of our sport.

I once heard Doug Jacobs say "soaring in the usa is as popular as tiddlewinks". Well, i had to research tiddlewinks.

Given that soaring is unknown to most, is expensive and dangerous, often inconvenient (landouts) and no fun for significant others (rare usa soaring sites are)...it's a wonder we get the participation we do.

Now, add the demands of contest flying to all that!

J4
  #66  
Old March 14th 17, 06:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 133
Default Make Sailplane Racing Great Again

To make soaring contests more popular, simply copy "The Seniors" contest, now going on in Florida. Sold out every year.

One of the reasons is the primary emphasis on the "Fun Factor."

Of course, there are a few serious pilots, however the vast majority are there just to fly in a safe manner and have a good time, both in the air and on the ground.

Few will remember who won in preceding years.

One of the original Seniors tongue-in-cheek rules was a penalty if you won the day. Even waxing your glider had a penalty.

Tasks are set so everyone is able to complete it, and the task area has plenty of good places to land.

Further, the non-flying times have plenty of opportunity for casual, fun, gatherings.

Tom Knauff
  #67  
Old March 21st 17, 10:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Fox Two[_2_]
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Default Make Sailplane Racing Great Again

TW: My thoughts exactly! I'll see you at 4000 meters at Prarayer!

F2
  #68  
Old March 21st 17, 04:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Cochrane[_3_]
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Posts: 351
Default Make Sailplane Racing Great Again

Tom vs. "Wilbur" capture, I think, the essence of the argument. Wilbur wants to make sailplane racing "great" (not again, because it never was) for spectators. Tom wants to make sailplane racing great for pilots. If you want a spectator sport, you need a grand prix like event, and crashes would make it even more enticing. American Ninja Sailplane Warriors. About 5 people will want to participate. If you want a participant sport, you want an event that lets pilots enjoy good flights, a nice venue, good parties, happy spouses .. and nobody really watching. There really isn't an argument here about how to get from goal to result, the argument is over goals. And, fortunately, nothing about either goal stops people from pursuing the other. So I don't know what we're fighting about. Wilbur, thanks for organizing grand prix, and good luck with it. Nothing about the existence of seniors, nephi, etc. stops you! Seniors, Nephi, Perry, etc. thanks so much to organizers for putting it on and US rules for devising a good balance between use the day fun and a reasonable race. Nothing about the existence of such events stops anyone who wants to make racing "great" again from putting on grand prixes.

John Cochrane
  #69  
Old March 21st 17, 04:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Default Make Sailplane Racing Great Again

Le mardi 21 mars 2017 10:46:07 UTC+1, Fox Two a écritÂ*:
TW: My thoughts exactly! I'll see you at 4000 meters at Prarayer!

F2


Yes, see you there :-)

But the time being, given the great weather in Southern France right now, I'm back in the office...

TW
  #70  
Old March 21st 17, 09:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Godfrey (QT)[_2_]
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Posts: 321
Default Make Sailplane Racing Great Again

On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 11:17:12 AM UTC-5, wrote:
You will only improve if you are honest with yourself and admit your weaknesses. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. A tow rope looses 50% of its strength with a knot it in.

For those who have tasted flight, their eyes will be forever turned skyward. And for those who have tasted the excitement of racing alongside another sailplane, they will forever want to compete. Sailplane racing is a sport in which a 16 year old can compete against an 86 year old. It is the most pure form of aviation that exists. Hot air ballooning, helicopters, power aircraft to gyrocopters, can quickly reach a state where you feel you have mastered that craft. With Soaring, it takes a lifetime, an endless pursuit of winning a challeng that is always changing with the winds.

What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?

My opinion is that the complexities of the game have become too overwhelming it takes the fun away.

Back in the old days, it was as simple as who can fly the furthest downwind. That's simple to understand.

Technology, spot tracking, no more cameras at the points have changed our sport, but is it really for the better? Are we embracing these technological advancements to rise our sport or has it been used to demise our sport?

More than often in the past decade have we seen dismal turnouts for classes. 12 pilots for the standard class national championship showed up! That's pathetic!

It makes me wonder, does the SSA leadership want a sold out contest? Or do they want a small turnout to reduce the competition they face? Actions speak louder than words! Or is it that this has become a good old boys club and we want to keep it small like a gentlemens hunting club.

It's shocking that a pilot can get a rating, buy a glider and finish last place in a regional contest and then with minimal qualifications qualify for a National Contest!

This alone clearly shows that what has been done to keep the sport the same size, or increase its participation levels has been a failure.


IMauHO, we could make traditional sailplane racing interesting to watch (and anecdotal feedback is that lots of folks would like to watch) by economically solving the near real-time tracking nut (not just interval, but also latency). This would allow "spectators" to see:
1. Speed made good by competitors up to now
2. Distance/time remaining
3. Who has how much in the "bank"
4. What McCready #2 has to achieve to win

That would be worth watching. Real time data (and marketing) made the America's Cup a spectator sport.
 




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