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#11
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Well, keep hoping. You really ought to get your burning hatred of the F-22 checked out by a mental health professional. You're FAR over the line into raving obsession. Celebration, Scotty. You were wrong all along. Maybe you'll prove it by posting some pictures of those strakes. |
#12
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"Scott Ferrin" wrote in message news Well, keep hoping. You really ought to get your burning hatred of the F-22 checked out by a mental health professional. You're FAR over the line into raving obsession. Celebration, Scotty. You were wrong all along. Maybe you'll prove it by posting some pictures of those strakes. Why? With you batting zero here at ram, you lack the credibility to even question me. |
#13
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On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:28:40 -0700, Ed Rasimus
wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:04:47 -0000, "Ian" wrote: "Ed Rasimus" wrote in message . .. First, lets examine the reported incident. Two Eurofighters on a "first RAF formation training flight"--so they are cruising around learning how to fly their airplane. Are "bounced" by a pair of Mud Hens (not the air superiority variant of the F-15, although arguably quite capable.) The two RAF aircraft break off their training and engage in an unbriefed, unauthorized hassle with the Eagles, and "ended up on the F-15 tail, comfortably gunning the trailing one...." You've described a violation of training and safety regulations. Violation on whose part? I can't speak for the RAF, but their regs are remarkably similar to USAF's. It would be a violation to conduct an unbriefed DACT engagement. Spontanous "bouncing" goes on, but it isn't condoned. There's no point in doing it. It doesn't meet any training objectives, it isn't controlled, it is downright dangerous and without pre-briefed ROE proves nothing. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8 Not to mention if you bust something while doing it you might be in hot water? :-) |
#14
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"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message ... On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:04:47 -0000, "Ian" wrote: "Ed Rasimus" wrote in message .. . First, lets examine the reported incident. Two Eurofighters on a "first RAF formation training flight"--so they are cruising around learning how to fly their airplane. Are "bounced" by a pair of Mud Hens (not the air superiority variant of the F-15, although arguably quite capable.) The two RAF aircraft break off their training and engage in an unbriefed, unauthorized hassle with the Eagles, and "ended up on the F-15 tail, comfortably gunning the trailing one...." You've described a violation of training and safety regulations. Violation on whose part? I can't speak for the RAF, but their regs are remarkably similar to USAF's. It would be a violation to conduct an unbriefed DACT engagement. Spontanous "bouncing" goes on, but it isn't condoned. There's no point in doing it. It doesn't meet any training objectives, it isn't controlled, it is downright dangerous and without pre-briefed ROE proves nothing. Not that I'm trying to condone it, but it did occur in one of the low flying areas, where such bouncing happens all the time. The rumour round work was that the F15s (and we were told by the Typhoon pilot they were e's) had been following on previous sorties, and and made a bit of radio contact, leading to the 'incident' in question. |
#15
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On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:53:39 GMT, Scott Ferrin
wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:28:40 -0700, Ed Rasimus There's no point in doing it. It doesn't meet any training objectives, it isn't controlled, it is downright dangerous and without pre-briefed ROE proves nothing. Not to mention if you bust something while doing it you might be in hot water? :-) Actually, for most operating area around Great Britain, it would be COLD water--very cold water. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8 |
#16
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Not to mention if you bust something while doing it you might be in
hot water? :-) I think "hot water" is an understatement. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
#17
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On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:53:07 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote: "Scott Ferrin" wrote in message news Well, keep hoping. You really ought to get your burning hatred of the F-22 checked out by a mental health professional. You're FAR over the line into raving obsession. Celebration, Scotty. You were wrong all along. Maybe you'll prove it by posting some pictures of those strakes. Why? With you batting zero here at ram, you lack the credibility to even question me. LOL The doc needs to change your meds. Either that or you need to put down the crack pipe. |
#18
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On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:57:58 -0700, Ed Rasimus
wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:36:33 +1100, John Cook wrote: Hi all Just saw this and it peaked my interest.. You mean "piqued", but I digress. I guess your right, but my interest was 'peaked' as well:-). "The New Air Superiority Benchmark Thursday the 19th of February 2004 will mark the day when the undisputed king of air superiority had to surrender its thirty-year crown to a newcomer. It happened over the skies of Windermere, in the scenic English Lake District. Two Eurofighter Typhoon twin-seaters were on the first RAF formation training flight from Warton Aerodrome when they were bounced from the eight o'clock by a couple of F-15Es belonging to the USAFE's 48th TFW, probably the most formidable and experienced combat unit in the European theatre. The Typhoon crew did not seem to be intimidated and with two rapid counters ended up on the F-15 tail, comfortably gunning the trailing one, who was in full afterburner, wings rocking and wondering what had happened. ---rest of drivel snipped--- First, lets examine the reported incident. Two Eurofighters on a "first RAF formation training flight"--so they are cruising around learning how to fly their airplane. Are "bounced" by a pair of Mud Hens (not the air superiority variant of the F-15, although arguably quite capable.) The two RAF aircraft break off their training and engage in an unbriefed, unauthorized hassle with the Eagles, and "ended up on the F-15 tail, comfortably gunning the trailing one...." You've described a violation of training and safety regulations. You've described a WVR engagement and don't acknowledge that the standard Eagle tactics would have been to long range radar shoot in the face, then intermediate range IR shoot in the face, then blast through with guns if the kill was not complete. The Eurofighters wouldn't have engaged in a turn/burn WVR engagement and the Eagles would not have been in a "fighting wing" or closer formation so that the Eurofighters could "comfortably gun" the trailing one. In other words, the entire report is pathetically bogus and written by someone without the first clue of air/air engagement or training. The comments are reportedly from Archie Neill (One of the BAE pilots who instructs the Case White RAF pilots) "PS Shot the sh*t out of a couple of F15s yesterday. Our first formation teach sortie (2 ship). Battle formation, 1nm Northwest of Windermere, bounced from the 8 o'clock. Two rapid counters and we were saddled up in their 6, comfortably gunning the trailer, who was in full burner in wing-rock wondering what happened. I love this aircraft. Look out world Typhoon is coming!" Anyone who hears what the F-15 pilots thought, do tell! See the thread on PPrune here. http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=120595 or here http://www.eurofighter.starstreak.ne...opic.php?t=827 I'm not demeaning either the Eurofighter or the RAF, but there is no reasonable conclusion to be drawn from this report regarding superiority of the one or demise of the other. Probabley not, but its fun non the less Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8 |
#19
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"Scott Ferrin" wrote in message ... On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:53:07 -0800, "Tarver Engineering" wrote: "Scott Ferrin" wrote in message news Well, keep hoping. You really ought to get your burning hatred of the F-22 checked out by a mental health professional. You're FAR over the line into raving obsession. Celebration, Scotty. You were wrong all along. Maybe you'll prove it by posting some pictures of those strakes. Why? With you batting zero here at ram, you lack the credibility to even question me. LOL The doc needs to change your meds. Either that or you need to put down the crack pipe. Cease your projection, little kook troll. |
#20
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In article ,
Ed Rasimus writes: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:53:39 GMT, Scott Ferrin wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:28:40 -0700, Ed Rasimus There's no point in doing it. It doesn't meet any training objectives, it isn't controlled, it is downright dangerous and without pre-briefed ROE proves nothing. Not to mention if you bust something while doing it you might be in hot water? :-) Actually, for most operating area around Great Britain, it would be COLD water--very cold water. And, IIRC, they can take it out of your pay, as well. Let;s see... A Captain makes - munble-froz and a Beagle costs unguzza-wuuzza carry the 3... That gives you an ETS date of something like 3006. -- Pete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster |
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