If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
T Tailed Libelle?
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:30:06 +0000, Tea Nott wrote:
true, but only for s/n 140 onwards http://www.streifly.de/TN205-11e.pdf The last balsa in the Std.Libelle, in the fin and elevator, vanished with S/N 182 at the end of 1970. Martin Simons says the H.205 was introduced in 1973 and the first AD is dated 1974, so its chances of containing any balsa is about zero. According to Simons the H.205's only vice was a sudden loss of height if you closed the TE flaps since they added lift and lowered the stalling speed: not a good thing to do toward the end of finals. I've seen a lot of Std.Libelles (there are three on our field including my all-balsa example, S/N 82) but I've never seen an H.205 in the flesh. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
T Tailed Libelle?
On Feb 5, 1:26*pm, Martin Gregorie
wrote: According to Simons the H.205's only vice was a sudden loss of height if you closed the TE flaps since they added lift and lowered the stalling speed: not a good thing to do toward the end of finals. I've seen a lot of Std.Libelles (there are three on our field including my all-balsa example, S/N 82) but I've never seen an H.205 in the flesh. We had one at Wellington club from I don't know when until 1996 or so. At the time I started to learn to fly you went from a Blanik to the Club Libelle as your first single-seater. It was a big jump!! By the time I got to that point the club had acquired a K6, which was an excellent in-between step. I did about 60 or 70 hours in the Club Libelle, including taking it to Omarama for recreational flying on my off days when I was helping with the scoring at the 1995 Worlds. The airbrakes did have a significant flap effect and lowered the stall speed by about 5 knots. I don't know how anyone could have a problem because of that though -- you're not going to get into trouble unless you're flying at under the clean stall speed, which would be insanity. Just fly your approach at clean stall speed plus 10 (plus half the wind) and the variation of stall speed with brakes never becomes an issue. Then go to full brakes as you come over the fence or in the flare (if you weren't already) and you get excellent deceleration in the air, an impressively low touchdown speed and short rollout. It was just fantastic for doing approaches over trees, and I found that a vertical dive with brakes open gave about 85 knots, which was below the rough air speed. By far the bigger problem at our field was people landing with partial brake and getting flap effect but not much brake and floating all the way down the runway. Someone said it had Hornet wings. I don't believe so. The plan and profile were as far as I could tell the same as the Std Libelle, with only the airbrakes (and mounting position) different. In theory the performance was less than a Std Libelle. I believe the Club Libelle was deliberately dumbed down to get the best L/D down to 35 for the then Club Class rules (see Club Astir also). It had a much roomier cockpit and fixed undercarriage. However it was pretty hard to tell the difference. We had a Std Libelle as well and I flew one or the other many times in company with the other and any difference was tiny. I remember doing a final glide of about 30 km in the Club Libelle, side by side with the Std Libelle, and we were maybe 50 ft apart in height at the end. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
T Tailed Libelle?
The Hornet is a type certificate variant of the Club Libelle, uses the
tailboom, tailplane, rudder and cockpit. The Hornet wing is a reinforced version to take waterballast, both appear to be very similar to the original Standard Libelle wing The Mosquito fuz was pretty much the same and followed on to the 304 which HPH still make the Club Libelle is the original aircraft with the Hanel automatic control connections Realy nice glider to fly if you can keep the wingtips of the ground when you launch, otherwise rather more practical than the Standard Libelle, sensible cockpit and much more stable. seem to be popular in german clubclass the wing is resonably rain and bug resistant, and it would seem a resonable handicap advantage Pete Hornet Sn 39 Club Libelle Sn 22 At 05:04 05 February 2009, Bruce Hoult wrote: On Feb 5, 1:26=A0pm, Martin Gregorie wrote: According to Simons the H.205's only vice was a sudden loss of height if you closed the TE flaps since they added lift and lowered the stalling speed: not a good thing to do toward the end of finals. I've seen a lot of Std.Libelles (there are three on our field including my all-balsa example, S/N 82) but I've never seen an H.205 in the flesh. We had one at Wellington club from I don't know when until 1996 or so. At the time I started to learn to fly you went from a Blanik to the Club Libelle as your first single-seater. It was a big jump!! By the time I got to that point the club had acquired a K6, which was an excellent in-between step. I did about 60 or 70 hours in the Club Libelle, including taking it to Omarama for recreational flying on my off days when I was helping with the scoring at the 1995 Worlds. The airbrakes did have a significant flap effect and lowered the stall speed by about 5 knots. I don't know how anyone could have a problem because of that though -- you're not going to get into trouble unless you're flying at under the clean stall speed, which would be insanity. Just fly your approach at clean stall speed plus 10 (plus half the wind) and the variation of stall speed with brakes never becomes an issue. Then go to full brakes as you come over the fence or in the flare (if you weren't already) and you get excellent deceleration in the air, an impressively low touchdown speed and short rollout. It was just fantastic for doing approaches over trees, and I found that a vertical dive with brakes open gave about 85 knots, which was below the rough air speed. By far the bigger problem at our field was people landing with partial brake and getting flap effect but not much brake and floating all the way down the runway. Someone said it had Hornet wings. I don't believe so. The plan and profile were as far as I could tell the same as the Std Libelle, with only the airbrakes (and mounting position) different. In theory the performance was less than a Std Libelle. I believe the Club Libelle was deliberately dumbed down to get the best L/D down to 35 for the then Club Class rules (see Club Astir also). It had a much roomier cockpit and fixed undercarriage. However it was pretty hard to tell the difference. We had a Std Libelle as well and I flew one or the other many times in company with the other and any difference was tiny. I remember doing a final glide of about 30 km in the Club Libelle, side by side with the Std Libelle, and we were maybe 50 ft apart in height at the end. |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
The new Fork Tailed Doctor Killer | Denny | Piloting | 182 | March 24th 08 12:54 AM |
Oshkosh 2004-T-Tailed Pusher Aircraft | Jesse Zufall | Home Built | 3 | February 13th 05 03:12 PM |
For F-5 fans - Iran reveals new F-5 based twin-tailed Azarakhsh fighter | TJ | Military Aviation | 1 | July 11th 04 09:40 PM |