Buzzing Fatality

In article .
earthlink.net, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
BTW, Dylan, do you know Ian McFayden, at the Isle of Man?

Yes, he's the Governor and he sometimes flies and does a bit of
instruction at the glider club. I don't think his schedule allows him to
get out much though!

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

In article .
earthlink.net, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
BTW, Dylan, do you know Ian McFayden, at the Isle of Man?

Yes, he's the Governor and he sometimes flies and does a bit of
instruction at the glider club. I don't think his schedule allows him to
get out much though!


He is an occasional visitor(He has several friends here) to Spruce
Creek, in Florida and flies with our Gaggle Flight when here.

Cue discussion about how "it's a small world". When I was living in
Houston, one of the ATC guys from Ronaldsway airport turned up at
Houston Gulf...

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

There are many reasons to fly
formation in civil aircraft - the most common is to get in-flight
photographs of another aircraft, but quite often it's done because when
done well, it is very rewarding. The only 'waving' we do at the other
pilot is hand signals.

Agreed - when it's done by people who know what they are doing it is a
demonstration of precision aircraft control, and great practice - and
very rewarding to the pilots. For superb examples look no further than
Blue Angels, Red Arrows and Snowbirds.

However, I believe you already know that this is not what I was
referring to.

I was specifically talking about the clowns who have no interest in
learning one single thing after receiving their PP-ASEL (often not even
that) who nevertheless go out and fly wingtip to wingtip, with idiotic
grin firmly in place, and one hand off the yoke to wave with, and create
next weeks NTSB reports.

But you knew that, didn't you?

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument
Cessna 172H C-GICE

tony roberts wrote:

There are many reasons to fly
formation in civil aircraft - the most common is to get in-flight
photographs of another aircraft, but quite often it's done because when
done well, it is very rewarding. The only 'waving' we do at the other
pilot is hand signals.


Agreed - when it's done by people who know what they are doing it is a
demonstration of precision aircraft control, and great practice - and
very rewarding to the pilots. For superb examples look no further than
Blue Angels, Red Arrows and Snowbirds.

However, I believe you already know that this is not what I was
referring to.

I was specifically talking about the clowns who have no interest in
learning one single thing after receiving their PP-ASEL (often not even
that) who nevertheless go out and fly wingtip to wingtip, with idiotic
grin firmly in place, and one hand off the yoke to wave with, and create
next weeks NTSB reports.

But you knew that, didn't you?

Formation flying (was Buzzing Fatality)

If you want a little experience flying in formation, go get a glider
(aero-tow) ticket. During take off, you are flying in formation with
the tow plane although you will be 200' away. Your job is to avoid
crashing the tow plane by jerking it around. Once you get the hang of
it, it's easy enough, but I can't imagine what being 3' away from
another airplane would be like.

"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
news:9E4Tc.301121$XM6.76668@attbi_s53...
I can't imagine what being 3' away from
another airplane would be like.

Scary!

Mind you, 3' would be rather too scary.

Paul (just come back from my second formation flying weekend
ready for "the big one" - 21 ship - in a fortnight's time)

In article ,
"Paul Sengupta" wrote:

"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
news:9E4Tc.301121$XM6.76668@attbi_s53...
I can't imagine what being 3' away from
another airplane would be like.

Scary!

Mind you, 3' would be rather too scary.

Paul (just come back from my second formation flying weekend
ready for "the big one" - 21 ship - in a fortnight's time)



Not when both pilots know what they are doing! Normal close formation
discipline is 3' down (wingtip to wingtip), 3' outside (wingtip to
wingtip) and 45 degrees back for wingmen.

It is a lot easier to maintain close formation than more spread out. Do
not try it until you review a good formation manual (the T-34 Assn.
publishes a good one), review the hand signals and get some formation
instructors.

All itt takes is brief, practice, debrief; brief, practice, debrief, etc.

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Paul Sengupta" wrote:

"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
news:9E4Tc.301121$XM6.76668@attbi_s53...
I can't imagine what being 3' away from
another airplane would be like.

Scary!

Mind you, 3' would be rather too scary.

Not when both pilots know what they are doing! Normal close formation
discipline is 3' down (wingtip to wingtip), 3' outside (wingtip to
wingtip) and 45 degrees back for wingmen.

Doesn't that make it more than 3' away then?

It is a lot easier to maintain close formation than more spread out.

If you're confident and skillful enough to do it yes, especially in steep
turns.

Do not try it until you review a good formation manual

Got the RAF manual.

review the hand signals

You want me to fly close formation AND make/watch for hand
signals? :-)

and get some formation instructors.

Got some of those. All current/ex-RAF/red arrows/display pilots.

All itt takes is brief, practice, debrief; brief, practice, debrief, etc.

Phew. Yes.

Paul

Paul Sengupta wrote:

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Paul Sengupta" wrote:

Mind you, 3' would be rather too scary.

Not when both pilots know what they are doing! Normal close formation
discipline is 3' down (wingtip to wingtip), 3' outside (wingtip to
wingtip) and 45 degrees back for wingmen.

Doesn't that make it more than 3' away then?

Yep. About 4.25'.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

In article ,
"Paul Sengupta" wrote:

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Paul Sengupta" wrote:

"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
news:9E4Tc.301121$XM6.76668@attbi_s53...
I can't imagine what being 3' away from
another airplane would be like.

Scary!

Mind you, 3' would be rather too scary.

Not when both pilots know what they are doing! Normal close formation
discipline is 3' down (wingtip to wingtip), 3' outside (wingtip to
wingtip) and 45 degrees back for wingmen.

Doesn't that make it more than 3' away then?

It is a lot easier to maintain close formation than more spread out.

If you're confident and skillful enough to do it yes, especially in steep
turns.

That's where it helps to keep it in tight, as it requires less power on
the outside of turns. Remember, the throttle is your most important
control! It also requires less throttle reduction on the inside of turns.



Do not try it until you review a good formation manual

Got the RAF manual.

Good!



review the hand signals

You want me to fly close formation AND make/watch for hand
signals? :-)


You ALWAYS keep your Lead's head in sight! That way you can see the
signals. Every plane has some references to use for formation flight.
On T-34s and Bonanzas it is the intersection of the aileron/flap
trailing edge and the rear cowl fastener.




and get some formation instructors.

Got some of those. All current/ex-RAF/red arrows/display pilots.

All itt takes is brief, practice, debrief; brief, practice, debrief, etc.

Phew. Yes.


Sounds as if you are on the right track!

William

Do you flinch when you are driving side by side to another auto at 80
mph on the freeway?

In formation you are at the same airspeed as the other bird (after
join up) and it is no more difficult than driving side by side on
freeway.

I'll agree you do need to keep your eyes open for a leader who turns
rapidly into you with no warning signal.

Big John (as comfortable in formation as sitting in my wheel chair)
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:56:13 GMT, "William W. Plummer"
wrote:

tony roberts wrote:

There are many reasons to fly
formation in civil aircraft - the most common is to get in-flight
photographs of another aircraft, but quite often it's done because when
done well, it is very rewarding. The only 'waving' we do at the other
pilot is hand signals.


Agreed - when it's done by people who know what they are doing it is a
demonstration of precision aircraft control, and great practice - and
very rewarding to the pilots. For superb examples look no further than
Blue Angels, Red Arrows and Snowbirds.

However, I believe you already know that this is not what I was
referring to.

I was specifically talking about the clowns who have no interest in
learning one single thing after receiving their PP-ASEL (often not even
that) who nevertheless go out and fly wingtip to wingtip, with idiotic
grin firmly in place, and one hand off the yoke to wave with, and create
next weeks NTSB reports.

But you knew that, didn't you?

Formation flying (was Buzzing Fatality)

If you want a little experience flying in formation, go get a glider
(aero-tow) ticket. During take off, you are flying in formation with
the tow plane although you will be 200' away. Your job is to avoid
crashing the tow plane by jerking it around. Once you get the hang of
it, it's easy enough, but I can't imagine what being 3' away from
another airplane would be like.