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#11
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TO THE GROUP.... Wherever you are
"Jim" jaahrens NOSPAM at yahoo dot com wrote in message
... "Maple1" wrote in message news:rwE6j.5694$jq2.3014@pd7urf1no... That is because most of us have quit posting here and have moved on to better places with fewer assholes. I don't quite understand why you are flaming me for asking a simple question out of curiosity. I asked why it was stated that the air raid on Pearl was not particularly important to aviation. As you say . . . if "most of us have quit posting here and have moved on to better places with fewer assholes" . . . I see you're still around! Jim. I'm not sure if all types of browsers show it or not, but Maple's post while being posted after your reply, was posted in direct answer to Luke's message. A lot of providers do not always seem to pick up and post other answers straight away, so it is quite likely that Maple may not have seen your answer. It is a shame that Maple does not post a lot more here still as he used to have some great shots and used to contribute a lot. As to your question, I thought the same thing too. I think that the events of that day probably had a far greater effect on the future direction of military aviation than anyone at the time could have imagined. As to remembering the day, well I normally post my own photos here from time to time, so I am guilty of not posting some, but I certainly remembered the day. Here's a pic of one of the Types operated by the RAAF on their first operations against the Japanese. It was on the 8th of December, but only because of the International Date Line. In reality the attack on the Japanese invasion fleet off Malaya was over an hour before the attack on Pearl Harbour. -- Darryl Gibbs Aircraft of Australia Aviation Photography. www.aircraftofaustralia.com Vintage and Warbirds. http://www.vintageandwarbirds.com http://www.cnapg.org Information on all aspects of aviation, particularly vintage and warbirds. Home of the CNAPG aircraft recognition quiz's, and the Vintage and Warbird mailing list. |
#12
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TO THE GROUP.... Wherever you are
-- Darryl Gibbs Aircraft of Australia Aviation Photography. www.aircraftofaustralia.com Vintage and Warbirds. http://www.vintageandwarbirds.com http://www.cnapg.org Information on all aspects of aviation, particularly vintage and warbirds. Home of the CNAPG aircraft recognition quiz's, and the Vintage and Warbird mailing list. |
#13
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TO THE GROUP.... Wherever you are
-- Darryl Gibbs Aircraft of Australia Aviation Photography. www.aircraftofaustralia.com Vintage and Warbirds. http://www.vintageandwarbirds.com http://www.cnapg.org Information on all aspects of aviation, particularly vintage and warbirds. Home of the CNAPG aircraft recognition quiz's, and the Vintage and Warbird mailing list. |
#14
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TO THE GROUP.... Wherever you are
"Jim" jaahrens NOSPAM at yahoo dot com wrote in message ... "Luke" wrote in message ... "SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message ... IS IT JUST ME... Am I the only one that remembered that yesterday was a day that was supposed to have a special significance. A day that would live in infimy. There were many posts in a.b.p.military. I'm sure there were many more in the political groups, but I don't go there. The attack on Pearl harbor, while significant in reagards to History, politics, world events and the military, was not a particularly important day to the world of aviation. Luke Hmmmm! Wasn't the entire raid on Pearl carried out by aviation? Why do you say that it wasn't particularly important to the world of aviation? Was it the first of any sort of flight? The longest? Were any new technological barriers broken, aces crowned, meritorious valor on the part of any pilot? Were any records broken, or new trends in aviation started? The answer to all these questions is 'no'. Suggesting that Pearl harbor day might be a special day for aviation because "the entire raid on Pearl (was) carried out by aviation" is like suggesting that the assasination of JFK is a special day for gun enthusiasts.... Luke |
#15
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TO THE GROUP.... Wherever you are
SHIVER ME TIMBERS wrote: That is because most of us have quit posting here and have moved on to H better places with fewer assholes.ecSo where is Shangri La these days. Shangri-La is wherever you visit least. |
#16
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TO THE GROUP.... Wherever you are
"Luke" wrote in message ... "Jim" jaahrens NOSPAM at yahoo dot com wrote in message ... "Luke" wrote in message ... "SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message ... IS IT JUST ME... Am I the only one that remembered that yesterday was a day that was supposed to have a special significance. A day that would live in infimy. There were many posts in a.b.p.military. I'm sure there were many more in the political groups, but I don't go there. The attack on Pearl harbor, while significant in reagards to History, politics, world events and the military, was not a particularly important day to the world of aviation. Luke Hmmmm! Wasn't the entire raid on Pearl carried out by aviation? Why do you say that it wasn't particularly important to the world of aviation? Was it the first of any sort of flight? The longest? Were any new technological barriers broken, aces crowned, meritorious valor on the part of any pilot? Were any records broken, or new trends in aviation started? The answer to all these questions is 'no'. It was the first time carrier based aircraft made a significant and successful attack on a complete naval (and air) fleet (albeit in harbour). It marked the beginning of the end for the battleship, in favour of the carrier. I'd day that was a significant "first". Suggesting that Pearl harbor day might be a special day for aviation because "the entire raid on Pearl (was) carried out by aviation" is like suggesting that the assasination of JFK is a special day for gun enthusiasts.... Except that JFK was not the first (and certainly not the last) political figure to die from a bullit. Pearl was significant, because next to the "firsts" above, it lead directly to other significant "firsts", culminating in the first (and so far only) two air drops of A-bombs. Ron -- Non urinat in ventum |
#17
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TO THE GROUP.... Wherever you are
It was the first time carrier based aircraft made a significant and successful attack on a complete naval (and air) fleet (albeit in harbour). It marked the beginning of the end for the battleship, in favour of the carrier. I'd day that was a significant "first". Except the British attack at Taranto on November 1940 |
#18
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TO THE GROUP.... Wherever you are
"Ron" wrote in message ... Was it the first of any sort of flight? The longest? Were any new technological barriers broken, aces crowned, meritorious valor on the part of any pilot? Were any records broken, or new trends in aviation started? The answer to all these questions is 'no'. It was the first time carrier based aircraft made a significant and successful attack on a complete naval (and air) fleet (albeit in harbour). It marked the beginning of the end for the battleship, in favour of the carrier. I'd day that was a significant "first". Nope. Not the first. From wiki (so I don't have to type so much) : "The naval Battle of Taranto took place on the night of 11 November - 12 November 1940 during World War II. The Royal Navy launched the first all-aircraft naval attack in history, flying a small number of aircraft from an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean Sea and attacking the Italian fleet at harbour in Taranto. The effect of the British aircraft on the Italian warships led pundits around the world to predict the end of the "big gun" ship and the rise of naval air-power. The Italian fleet had suffered heavily, and the next day Regia Marina transferred its undamaged ships from Taranto to naval bases farther north to protect them from similar attacks. Repairs to Littorio took about four months and to Caio Duilio six, but Conte di Cavour required extensive salvage work and its repairs were incomplete when Italy left the war in 1943. The Italian battleship fleet lost half its strength in one night. The "fleet-in-being" diminished in importance and the Royal Navy increased its control of the Mediterranean." I would argue that WWII as a whole was the turning point from battle ship warfare to air carrier warfare, not just the attack at Pearl harbor. How you define "significant and successful attack" is a matter for you alone to place in your own personal set of benchmarks. The Japanese may have stepped things up a notch, or had some percieved increase of success in their actions on 12-7-41, but it wasn't because of any great achievement in aviation. Sadly, their success was due mostly to the fact that the US forces were asleep at the wheel, confident that the Japanese wouldn't attack. If anything, Pearl Harbor day is a red letter day in American screw-ups in underestimating the enemy. Luke |
#19
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TO THE GROUP.... Wherever you are
"Ron Snipes" wrote in message .. . Here you go Shiver! I'm a Helicopter Guy too. Ron Snipes New Bern, NC Be careful admitting you're a helicopter guy, people look at you funny when you do. Rob (SH-2F's, SH-3H's, SH-60F, SH-60B) |
#20
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TO THE GROUP.... Wherever you are
"Darryl Gibbs" wrote It is interesting (to me, at least) that your picture seems to show so much washout (twist in the wing at the tip so it has less angle of attack, thus lessening the severity of stalls) or it appears to show a bunch of washout. I included the definition not for you, but for newbies that may not be aware of that aerodynamic design factor. Nice picture, by the way. -- Jim in NC |
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