filling Oxygen tanks

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 04:24:18 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

snip

I thought acetylene had to be stored upright?

Well, my bottle gets transported in a horizontal position when I have to take it
on a job, but I've always stored it and used it in a vertical position. I was
told there are safety reasons for that, so I've always done that. I was always
curious as to what those reasons are, though.

snip

from http://www.thebestlinks.com/Gas_welding.html

Acetylene is obtained from the action of water upon calcium carbide.
Calcium carbide in turn is produced by the reaction together in an
electric arc furnace of carbon and calcium carbonate. Acetylene can be
produced near where the welding is being done in an acetylene
generator. More commonly it is produced in a central plant and then
shipped to the welding site in special containers. These containers
are packed with various porous materials (kapok fibre), then filled
about half way with acetone. The acetylene dissolves into the acetone.
This method is necessary because acetylene is unstable above 207 kPa
(30 lb/in²) and may explode. There is about 1700 kPa (250 lb/in&sup2)
of pressure in the tank when full. Acetylene gives a temperature of
3200 to 3500 ?C (5800 to 6300 ?F) when burned with oygen, which is the
highest temperature of any of the gases mentioned here.

TC

"Roger" wrote

I didn't think they could sell them without them. (caps)
Tanks have had to have that provision for years. OTOH there are a lot
of lost caps floating around... some where.

I *think* tanks with a guard around the valve, (so a blow sideways can not
knock off the valve) are still legal. I have an old acetylene tank like
that.

If the Acetylene tank were laying down I think I'd have a problem with
all the acetone coming out the torch tip.

Correct. Acetylene is actually dissolved in acetone, so as you use the gas
and the pressure gets lower, the acetylene "evaporates" or "comes out of
solution" to come out the tip as a gas. If the tank were on its side, you
would get acetone coming out of the tip.

There is also another difference in the tanks, between Oxy and Acety.

The Oxy tank is a big open container on the inside. The Acety. is like a
metal honeycomb, or metal sponge, with the acetylene and acetone in the
little cells. I think it has something to do with providing maximum surface
area of the liquid, allowing the acetylene to come out of solution at rapid
flow rates.
--
Jim in NC

wrote:

from http://www.thebestlinks.com/Gas_welding.html

Ok, I read everything there. IIUC, my welding bottle is filled with some sort of
porous foam and the contents are actually a mix of acetylene and acetone. That
doesn't seem to give any reason for storing the bottle upright -- the acetylene
ought to stay in solution regardless of position. Use would be a different
matter, I suppose. If the bottle is upright, I'll get acetylene gas out of it
when I open the valve. If it's on its side, I'm likely to get acetone out,
right? And if too much of the acetone comes out, the remaining acetylene will
blow.

Hummmmmmmm. Maybe I need to start transporting the stuff upright too, just in
case. While we're at it, let's get it a lot further away from me too.

Thanks.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote

Well, my bottle gets transported in a horizontal position when I have to
take it
on a job, but I've always stored it and used it in a vertical position. I
was
told there are safety reasons for that, so I've always done that. I was
always
curious as to what those reasons are, though.

George Patterson

Although I have also transported cylinders horizontal at times, you (and
I)are violating DOT regulation when we do. They must be vertical, and
chained. (not bungee strapped, or tied with rope) There may be an out, if
the cylinders are under a certain size.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:

I have heard of a tank
going through a cement block wall, but I would not doubt that this is an
"urban legend".

I'm sure one could do that. Toecutter just posted a link that states that
acetylene bottles are pressurized to 250 pounds per square inch. I know the big
bottles weigh something over 150 pounds. A concrete block can be easily
shattered with a sledge hammer. Let one of those big bottles accelerate about
ten feet, and I'd bet it wouldn't slow down noticeably going through that wall.

Now that you mention it, I remember someone on the airport job telling me about
an oxygen bottle that went through something substantial. Don't remember the
details, though. I do remember the acetylene bottle that cracked at the neck on
that job. Most of us smoked, of course, and it caught fire. The jet of flame was
well over 60 feet high - it was higher than the tunnel wall, and that was 60
feet high (or deep, depending on how you want to look at it).

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

Morgans wrote:

Although I have also transported cylinders horizontal at times, you (and
I)are violating DOT regulation when we do. They must be vertical, and
chained. (not bungee strapped, or tied with rope) There may be an out, if
the cylinders are under a certain size.

Mine may be under that size, but vertical it will be from now on.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

The local A&P school in Denver keeps the O2 bottles inside but the
acetylene is stored upright outside the building in a chained off
area (right outside the door). According to them, the threads on
the bottles are left-handed, to ensure that the O2 (and nitrogen)
valves cannot be accidentally installed on them. Plus, all 3 gases
are in different colored tanks (O2 is green, as we all know...)
The nitrogen is in black bottles. Forgot what color the
acetylene is...

Blanche wrote:

According to them, the threads on
the bottles are left-handed, to ensure that the O2 (and nitrogen)
valves cannot be accidentally installed on them.

That's correct. The threads on flammable gases are the reverse of non-flammable.

Plus, all 3 gases
are in different colored tanks (O2 is green, as we all know...)
The nitrogen is in black bottles. Forgot what color the
acetylene is...

I used to have a small one that was orange. What paint there is on my current
bottle is silver. IIRC, nitrous oxide bottles are blue.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

In article ,
"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:

Now that you mention it, I remember someone on the airport
job telling me about an oxygen bottle that went through
something substantial.

I was told once that by an aero & astro faculty colleague if you were to
make a gas bottle out of the best available steel, optimize the wall
thickness for best tradeoff between weight and bursting strength, fill
it with water, put a big Bunsen burner under it and heat it until it was
just on the edge of bursting, tilt it at the right angle, and knock off
the valve end, you'd have a steam rocket that could (just barely)
achieve Earth orbit. Can't vouch for the numbers myself.

The jet cycle that Evel Knievel attempted to fly across the Snake River
Canyon in was a steam rocket.

Horizontal positioned bottles with suddenly removed valves, turn into
rockets, and have been known to leave the area at great rates of speed,
regardless of what obstacles stand in their ways.

I've seen old USAF photos of the aftermath of one such 'rocket'. Concrete
walls do not stand a chance. You suddenly get religon.......and start storing
them correctly, right away.

But, old USAF O2 refill carts contained 4 or 6 bottles (or maybe 8)
horizontally strapped onto wheeled carts. I always wondered why this
horizontal configuration was used. The bottles were connected into a manifold
array and well protected from potential valve damage exposure.
VL