Human factors RECKLESSNESS

"Ed" wrote in message
...

Thanks Dudley. No surprise you agree. Most people in dangerous
professions learn to think this way, or they become a statistic. Test
pilot, fighter pilot, aerobatic pilot, soldier, police officer, fireman,
mountain climber, stuntman, race car driver ... the same mentality is
essential to success. Learn as much as you can, prepare as much as you
can, and stack the odds in your favor so you reach the end in one piece.

The old saying is wrong. There are plenty of old, bold pilots. But they
are all old, bold, careful pilots. There are no old, bold, careless
pilots.

It has always amazed me about the "hero" tag people for some reason
absolutely insist on associating with professionals who engage in dangerous
work. The truth of it, as I'm sure you are well aware, is that the "heros"
get killed off pretty quickly. It's the people who treat these jobs with the
respect they deserve that live to do it again and again.
Race driver Tom Sneva said it better than I ever could one day after he
smacked the wall at Indy at 230 mph and walked away. A reporter stuck a mike
in Tom's puss as he was walking in and asked him the wrong question
:-) The reporter asked,
"Boy...I bet you'd like to be able to try that corner again wouldn't you
Tom?"
Sneva just looked at the guy like he was nuts and said simply,
"Yeah right! ......if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd ALL have a
Merry Christmas!!!"
In flying....it's knowing when to be bold and when not to be bold that adds
up to the "old" part!! :-)
Dudley

Yip, live fast die young. Better than sitting in bed at 70 with all
types of disease and cancer eating away at your internal organs. You
can't hide from death, it will come to vist one day and unless you are
religious and believe in the afterlife etc, it doesn't really matter if
it is sooner or later, you will still end up dead!

J.


NW_PILOT wrote:
"private" wrote in message
news:hQ7ce.1148571$8l.556991@pd7tw1no...

My apologies to the Usenet police cross posting but



I am in mourning for friends lost, and in sympathy for the families they
left alone.



This week we have seen behavior that can only be described as reckless.



A man posts video of a poorly performed roll in a non aerobatic aircraft
without regard for ...............to say nothing about his instructor
PARTICIPATING. Two survivors and a questionable aircraft



CFIT A multiple champion pilot losses control while reaching for a $100

side

bet.

One fatal.



911?, fuel exhaustion, over water, without flotation, at night. One
(probable) fatal.



I am tempted to ask why? where are we failing? are we glorifying
recklessness? Are we truly self destructive (cigarettes, food, alcohol,
pollution etc)? what can we do? but



I know that we must each find the answers within ourselves and to strive

for

the personal situational control to handle these situations and

temptations.

Training helps, as do mentors. (Thank you Dudley, Gene etal)



I am sick of hearing "he died doing something he loved". It just sounds
trite.



They are always way too young.



My condolences and sympathy to all mourning family and friends.




Ok what about the people you don't here about all the fools driving cars
talking on cell phone, driving while under the influence of a mind altering
substance like Prozac and the many other pansy pills. "Ohh dont for get
about the other drugs people use"

"You know Moving any faster than a walking pace can be potentially fatal!"

I would not say that we are glorifying recklessness, if it wasn't for people
you call reckless we would still be living in caves. Most of us that are in
to flying or other extreme hobbies have a huge respect for life but also
have that need for that adrenalin. I my-self wake up every day and am very
thankful that I don't have to stick a needle in my arm or suck something up
my nose to get that rush, I have many many other activity's like flying to
get that feeling.

You will Die one day that's a fact of Life!! You cannot hide from it! You
cannot run from it! So embrace the Life you have been given and enjoy it
with every breath you take because you may never know when it may be your
last.

Justin Fielding wrote

Yip, live fast die young. Better than sitting in bed at 70 with all
types of disease and cancer eating away at your internal organs.

RIGHT !!!

I have now reached that age (70), but spend no more time in bed than
you do and probably spend a lot more time at the airport or in an
airplane than you do. Still a practicing flight instructor with over
20,000 hours of flying behind me and looking forward to lots more.
I was on the receiving end of a Flight Review just last week and the
other instructor was 76 years old. We had a great time in the 47 year
old Cessna 172.

Bob Moore
ATP B-727 B-707 L-188
CFI CFII
Naval Aviator S-2A P-2V P-3B 1958-1967
Pan American Airways 1967-1991 (retired)

Justin Fielding wrote:
Yip, live fast die young. Better than sitting in bed at 70 with all
types of disease and cancer eating away at your internal organs. You
can't hide from death, it will come to vist one day and unless you are
religious and believe in the afterlife etc, it doesn't really matter if
it is sooner or later, you will still end up dead!

Justin, Can I take out some life insurance on you?

What I have belatedly discovered is that flying time is NOT
deducted from your life span. At 81. I expect to pass 11,000
hours this year. I got a late start and like every other pilot
regret that I did not start flying sooner.
Gene Whitt

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 121...
Justin Fielding wrote

Yip, live fast die young. Better than sitting in bed at 70 with all
types of disease and cancer eating away at your internal organs.

RIGHT !!!

I have now reached that age (70), but spend no more time in bed than
you do and probably spend a lot more time at the airport or in an
airplane than you do. Still a practicing flight instructor with over
20,000 hours of flying behind me and looking forward to lots more.
I was on the receiving end of a Flight Review just last week and the
other instructor was 76 years old. We had a great time in the 47 year
old Cessna 172.

Bob Moore
ATP B-727 B-707 L-188
CFI CFII
Naval Aviator S-2A P-2V P-3B 1958-1967
Pan American Airways 1967-1991 (retired)

Yep. Getting there myself. The last CFI I was up with was 87 and he was
getting a checkout in the airplane from ME! :-)

Highflyer

Golly, what a bunch of OLD FARTS. I just ticked 61 and am looking forward
to all the stuff you all are talking about when I hit 70

(Are Depends anywhere in the mix? Just wondering...)

{;-)


Jim

LMAO,
Now that was funny!!!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech


"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
Golly, what a bunch of OLD FARTS. I just ticked 61 and am looking forward
to all the stuff you all are talking about when I hit 70

(Are Depends anywhere in the mix? Just wondering...)

{;-)


Jim

Bob Moore wrote:

I have now reached that age (70), but spend no more time in bed than
you do and probably spend a lot more time at the airport or in an
airplane than you do.

You mean I *don't* get to sleep my life away when I get that old? Dammit, I was
sorta looking forward to catching up on my sleep. :-)

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

There's no reason why living every day as your last precludes living every
day with the discipline to do everything in a way that best ensures that you
live another day. Who would want their last day to be marked by sloppiness,
lack of skill or poor judgement? Marcus Aurelius spoke at length on this
topic ca. 200 AD.



"Ed H" wrote in message
...

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

No it is my concept of life. Plain in simple lifeis short! You never
know
how long you have. So live it like every day is your last.


I'm a career Special Forces officer. I've made my living with and around
firearms, explosives, parachutes, and other risky things. Not to mention
roaming around places like Iraq trying not to get shot or blown up. Two
of
my favorite off-duty pursuits are aerobatic flying and mountaineering. So
I'm fairly well acquianted with risk.

Here's the thing: it's not about taking stupid chances in search of an
adrenaline rush. It's about controlling your environment, mastering the
challenges set before you. That means gathering information, knowing all
the risks, having the right skills, and taking appropriate measures to
ensure the outcome is positive. Every time.

If you live like every day is your last, then it will become a
self-fulfilling prophesy. It's a BS attitude. Your mentality should be
"I
may die, but it ain't gonna be today." Live to fly (or climb, or jump, or
fight) another day.

I don't know Bob Hoover, but I'm willing to bet that his attitude is
closer
to mine than to yours. I've known guys with your attitude. Some of them
grew out of it. The others are dead.

I don't blame you for the roll. I blame your CFI. You, as a student,
cannot be criticized for trusting your CFI to advise you. I probably
would
have done the same thing 10 years ago, when I didn't know better. Your
CFI
should lose his instructor status, if not his flight privs.

But that highlights the big danger in these kind of endeavors. You do the
right thing by seeking help from an experienced person, but what if that
person turns out to be an idiot? All I can say is be careful who you
trust,
seek second opinions, and look for appropriate certifications. One of the
saddest things about the NTSB accident reports are all the stories of
friends and family members killed by jackass pilots doing stupid things.